Establishing fair value for an older sailboat.

Question:

If that were true, half the boats on the water would be worthless. Most of what you hear about blisters and what’s needed to repair them is "the sky is falling" over-reative hype. In fact, any blisters on a 1982 boat are likely to be all the blisters it will ever have, so all that’s necessary is grinding out, drying out, filling, and bottom painting. As long as the hull is sound, no reduction in value whatever beyond the cost of doing that. Absolutely!! But the cost of the blister repair should be deducted from the asking price. Fred Moore s/v Blind Faith Ft. Lauderdale – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don- First, make sure the boat does not have hull pox (blisters)! If it does, it is not really worth much. If that were true, half the boats on the water would be worthless. Most of what you hear about blisters and what’s needed to repair them is "the sky is falling" over-reative hype. In fact, any blisters on a 1982 boat are likely to be all the blisters it will ever have, so all that’s necessary is grinding out, drying out, filling, and bottom painting. As long as the hull is sound, no reduction in value whatever beyond the cost of doing that. And btw…a 1982 boat isn’t that old! "Middle-aged" would be a better description. Peggie Also, if you haven’t already, determine if it is the swing keel or the fixed keel model. If the boat is in good shape (as most of them are) you should go ahead and look up the price in a BUC price guide at any yacht broker or at a bank or credit union. The price varies greatly with equipment, so get an inventory of what’s included in the purchase. As usual, be extra careful buying from friends. Good Luck! Regards, Mark Petrush Some friends of ours have a 1982 model Catalina 25 in fair shape which they would like to sell. My wife and I may be interested in the boat, but how do we determine what the boat is worth? (They have owned it since new, so have no idea what it is worth at this point). Suggestions? Don W. aclarity_at_aol_dot_com

Response:

stop yer whinin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -And with that, best of luck to you in all your Ventures. Regards, Mark Petrush. Whoa there, Peggie! I seem to have touched a nerve with you on the subject of blisters. Yup. My own 1980 boat had blisters when I bought her (she had lots of other problems too, but that’s a different issue). Yes, I bought her for a reduced price…but her value once the blisters were ground out, the bottom faired and new bottom paint applied (along with all the other needed repairs and updates) was restored to fulll "high book" value. For some reason blisters–ANY blisters, small and shallow or large and deep–have come to be regarded as the worst thing that can happen to a boat…represented by so-called "experts" as all but irreparable damage that can only be cured by such expensive means as stripping off all the gelcoat, epoxy barrier coats, etc…advice that strikes terror in the wallets of most boat owners and/or potential buyers. In fact, you fed that perception when you said: I am certain that a blister job can be satisfactorily repaired, and that some folks would be just as happy with the boat when repaired- I am also sure that other folks around the marina will likely make derogatory comments about the boat, usually when the owner is just (or maybe not quite?) out of earshot. You’re saying that that there will always be something "wrong" with a boat that’s had blisters…that’s simply not true. And that’s what I took exception to. My own 1980 boat had blisters when I bought her…survey showed the hull to be sound, not waterlogged, no indication of any rot…just a case of "acne" all over her bottom. Ground out, dried out, filled, faired and bottom painted…and she’s good as new–not only to me but to any knowledgable surveyor. Some insisted that she HAD to have an expensive epoxy barrier coat…those with more knowledge and common sense advised that a boat that old, that hadn’t been hauled in over 10 years (she’s in fresh water), has already developed all the blisters she’s ever going to and that a barrier coat would be a waste of money. As for topside labor being less expensive and time consuming than blister repair, not much can be more labor-intensive than wet-sanding a hull and stripping & re-apply 5 coats of varnish to a boat that has teak toe rails, cockpit rails, bow pulpit, taff-rails, hatches, etc, etc etc. But I digress… Blisters are NOT the "kiss of death"…and only the uninformed would make derogatory comments about a boat that has had properly repaired blisters. A survey would only note whether they had been properly repaired…and if so, even the best surveyor wouldn’t reduce the value of the boat because of it. Overall condition–including blisters–affects the market value of any boat. Although many people want a boat in "stock the cooler and go" condition, there are plenty–me included–who aren’t scared off by a sound boat in need of attention…in fact, enjoy restoring one. And blisters–repaired or in need of repair–are not a reason to avoid a boat, provided she’s sound. And with that, I’ll bow out of the discussion. Peggie But let’s not take what I advised Don the wrong way. See what I mean below. So, Peggie- Are you saying that you would pay the same for a blister boat as you would for a good one? Obviously, you would not. Yes I would–I did!–but only after the blisters were repaired, or with a reduction in price to cover the cost of blister repair. You claimed the boat would not be worth much if it has blisters..that the boat’s no good if it does _______ Right here: I said the boat’s not worth much, not that it’s no good. It’s just a better choice to avoid the hassle of blisters- most times a new owner wants to get on the water, not step up to a major project or yard bill. What do you think would be a fair price to have this work done? $1000.00 for a blister job is not too far out of line on a 25, so take that in consideration for a boat that typically sells for less than 10K in my area. Then add for barrier coat and paint, at least a couple hundred for materials plus labor. That’s a significant chunk of the value of the boat, and unless the seller is going to pay for it or reduce the price, why buy his boat when there are others that don’t need the work? It’s a question of relative value, not of good/not good. And value is what the original post was about. …but blisters–provided the hull is sound…not water-logged, no rot–do not reduce the value of a boat more than the cost to repair them. And I’d be more inclined to buy a 10+ year old boat that has blisters than a 1-3 year old boat with blisters…because a newer boat is likely to have more that will cost money to repair in the future, while the older boat has prob’ly gotten all it ever will. Obviously, a boat in perfect condition is a better buy, and will sell for more–than a boat that needs work of any kind…but what makes a sound boat in good mechanical working ordered, but has blisters worth less than one that has oxidized gelcoat or teak that needs to be stripped and re-varnished? Labor is labor…you’re trying to assign a different value to the labor to repair blisters vs. topside labor. But I never really mentioned the topside work or tried to assign a different value to it, so I think you may have inferred this. But now that we are on the topic, I disagree. Labor is not labor here, as almost anyone can do the type of topsides work you mention, but a blister job is beyond the general capabilities of many do-it-yourselfers, especially if you want the bottom to be fair when finished. more importantly–you’re singling out blisters as making a boat "not good," when there are other conditions that are much worse…that was my point. Peggie Again, Peggie- I advised Don four things in my post. 1) avoid blisters if you can because they do affect value (which is what he is trying to determine) 2) determine which model (FK/SK) it is as it matters when looking up the price 3) consult the BUC price guide 4) get an inventory of the boat’s equipment for fine-tuning it’s value. I added a general caveat for buying from friends, and I think no one would say that any of this was faulty advice. I never said that the boat was no good, heck I can’t even see it from here. I am sure, however, that for two Catalina 25’s of similar vintage and equipment, one with blisters and one without, the one without the blisters is a better buy every time. I also mentioned that many of the Catalina’s are in good shape, so it may not even be an issue for Don- just something to look out for. (BTW, I personally have seen a Cat 25 with about 15-20 blisters per square foot!) I know that you dispense a lot of good advice to the group and all, and I did not set out to argue with you on this, but I stand on what I have said as being sound advice to a buyer trying to determine the value of a boat. Your milage may vary. Regards, Mark Petrush p.s.- I am certain that a blister job can be satisfactorily repaired, and that some folks would be just as happy with the boat when repaired- I am also sure that other folks around the marina will likely make derogatory comments about the boat, usually when the owner is just (or maybe not quite?) out of earshot. What I am advising Don is that if the boat has blisters, he should get it for cheap or better yet pass it by. Anything can be repaired, but his time is worth something, and this job, although not rocket science, is a lot of work and materials expense. I have seen a few Cat 25’s with unbelievable amounts of blisters and many more with none. Which would you choose in a market flooded with used boats? Regards, Mark. Don- First, make sure the boat does not have hull pox (blisters)! If it does, it is not really worth much. If that were true, half the boats on the water would be worthless. Most of what you hear about blisters and what’s needed to repair them is "the sky is falling" over-reative hype. In fact, any blisters on a 1982 boat are likely to be all the blisters it will ever have, so all that’s necessary is grinding out, drying out, filling, and bottom painting. As long as the hull is sound, no reduction in value whatever beyond the cost of doing that. And btw…a 1982 boat isn’t that old! "Middle-aged" would be a better description. Peggie Also, if you haven’t already, determine if it is the swing keel or the fixed keel model. If the boat is in good shape (as most of them are) you should go ahead and look up the price in a BUC price guide at any yacht broker or at a bank or credit union. The price varies greatly with equipment, so get an inventory of what’s included in

Response:

I would suggest looking at other boats in the same or close condition. You may also try looking up similar boats on the many online sales areas such as www.traderonline.com. There are a number of links from there to look up used boats and find out the going market price. Hope this helps.

Thanks, it did. I found a bunch of listings of 1982 Catalina 25’s with prices to give me an idea of what people are asking for similar boats. Don W. aclarity_at_aol_dot_com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1. Before jumping at a boat that friends are offering to sell, you might want to think about what you really want in a boat. 2. When I was in the process of buying a 30′ sailboat, I bought a couple of books (and I even read them) to educate myself on issues that I should look for and be concerned about. You do need to be informed buyers especially if you are going to buy a used boat from a friend – to help preserve that friendship. There is a bunch of stuff the novice doesn’t even think about, but believe me, once you own it, YOU WILL. The titles that helped me: "How to buy the Best Sailboat" Chuck Gustafson " Surveying Fiberglass Sailboats" Henry C. Mustin May happy days, gentle seas and adequate winds be yours. — Jim King http://home.att.net/~sailking

I started this thread so can give you a little more info. My wife and I are seriously planning on cruising in two or three years. We’ve always owned powerboats so we want to get something that we can get a lot of sailing experience in fairly cheaply. When the time comes, we’ll purchase a much larger sailboat (42′ – 55′) to take out and live on, but larger boats are not well suited to the lake we live on (Lake Travis, TX) due to fluctuating water levels, shallow areas, and limited slip space for larger boats. The Catalina 25 that I mentioned has the swing keel, and will definitely need some renovating to be in top shape. The teak hand rails need refinishing or replaced as does most of the topside teak. (Except the tiller, which has a cover.) The carpet needs replaced, and the cushions will need to be recovered. On the positive side, the boat was hauled two years ago, and all blisters ground out and new bottom paint applied. The sails are in good condition, and the boat has very little "dock rash". (The paint is pretty oxidized, but I could probably just live with it.) What we are looking for is a boat that we can buy inexpensively, sail the heck out of, and then resell for close to what we paid for her. Assuming that we buy her at the right price, does this sound like a reasonable scenario for this type of boat? Thanks to all who responded, Don W. aclarity_at_aol_dot_com PS – I found the discussion of blisters interesting since I have never had to personally deal with them. We keep our other boat on a hydro-hoist just so that we can avoid this problem. I’ve heard that there was a fairly recent breakthrough in hull treatments that will avoid the blistering. Anyone know anything more about this?

Response:

Wow, Peggie. What a rant. I sense either a boat for sale ("was restored to full "high book" value") or maybe some buyer’s remorse ("My own 1980 boat had blisters when I bought her") here, or possibly I am just doing the same as you did with my post and reading more into this than should be done. Whatever the case, your sensitivity to this subject of blisters does not help our man Don find the value of the Catalina 25. How did this thread get to be about your boat anyway? I doubt that it’s a Catalina 25. I guess it does not really matter. Whatever your boat is, I’m sure it’s a nice one, and it is repaired in accordance to the school of thought you ascribe to based on your careful research, and well maintained. Myself, I watched a nice older couple repair blisters on their boat for a 3 consecutive Spring launch prep sessions, and it sure didn’t look like fun. Those pits went into the hull quite a ways. I was just trying to help Don avoid this pitfall. I probably will never understand why you could take exception to that, or transfer the discussion to being about your own boat. And with that, best of luck to you in all your Ventures. Regards, Mark Petrush. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whoa there, Peggie! I seem to have touched a nerve with you on the subject of blisters. Yup. My own 1980 boat had blisters when I bought her (she had lots of other problems too, but that’s a different issue). Yes, I bought her for a reduced price…but her value once the blisters were ground out, the bottom faired and new bottom paint applied (along with all the other needed repairs and updates) was restored to fulll "high book" value. For some reason blisters–ANY blisters, small and shallow or large and deep–have come to be regarded as the worst thing that can happen to a boat…represented by so-called "experts" as all but irreparable damage that can only be cured by such expensive means as stripping off all the gelcoat, epoxy barrier coats, etc…advice that strikes terror in the wallets of most boat owners and/or potential buyers. In fact, you fed that perception when you said: I am certain that a blister job can be satisfactorily repaired, and that some folks would be just as happy with the boat when repaired- I am also sure that other folks around the marina will likely make derogatory comments about the boat, usually when the owner is just (or maybe not quite?) out of earshot. You’re saying that that there will always be something "wrong" with a boat that’s had blisters…that’s simply not true. And that’s what I took exception to. My own 1980 boat had blisters when I bought her…survey showed the hull to be sound, not waterlogged, no indication of any rot…just a case of "acne" all over her bottom. Ground out, dried out, filled, faired and bottom painted…and she’s good as new–not only to me but to any knowledgable surveyor. Some insisted that she HAD to have an expensive epoxy barrier coat…those with more knowledge and common sense advised that a boat that old, that hadn’t been hauled in over 10 years (she’s in fresh water), has already developed all the blisters she’s ever going to and that a barrier coat would be a waste of money. As for topside labor being less expensive and time consuming than blister repair, not much can be more labor-intensive than wet-sanding a hull and stripping & re-apply 5 coats of varnish to a boat that has teak toe rails, cockpit rails, bow pulpit, taff-rails, hatches, etc, etc etc. But I digress… Blisters are NOT the "kiss of death"…and only the uninformed would make derogatory comments about a boat that has had properly repaired blisters. A survey would only note whether they had been properly repaired…and if so, even the best surveyor wouldn’t reduce the value of the boat because of it. Overall condition–including blisters–affects the market value of any boat. Although many people want a boat in "stock the cooler and go" condition, there are plenty–me included–who aren’t scared off by a sound boat in need of attention…in fact, enjoy restoring one. And blisters–repaired or in need of repair–are not a reason to avoid a boat, provided she’s sound. And with that, I’ll bow out of the discussion. Peggie But let’s not take what I advised Don the wrong way. See what I mean below. So, Peggie- Are you saying that you would pay the same for a blister boat as you would for a good one? Obviously, you would not. Yes I would–I did!–but only after the blisters were repaired, or with a reduction in price to cover the cost of blister repair. You claimed the boat would not be worth much if it has blisters..that the boat’s no good if it does _______ Right here: I said the boat’s not worth much, not that it’s no good. It’s just a better choice to avoid the hassle of blisters- most times a new owner wants to get on the water, not step up to a major project or yard bill. What do you think would be a fair price to have this work done? $1000.00 for a blister job is not too far out of line on a 25, so take that in consideration for a boat that typically sells for less than 10K in my area. Then add for barrier coat and paint, at least a couple hundred for materials plus labor. That’s a significant chunk of the value of the boat, and unless the seller is going to pay for it or reduce the price, why buy his boat when there are others that don’t need the work? It’s a question of relative value, not of good/not good. And value is what the original post was about. …but blisters–provided the hull is sound…not water-logged, no rot–do not reduce the value of a boat more than the cost to repair them. And I’d be more inclined to buy a 10+ year old boat that has blisters than a 1-3 year old boat with blisters…because a newer boat is likely to have more that will cost money to repair in the future, while the older boat has prob’ly gotten all it ever will. Obviously, a boat in perfect condition is a better buy, and will sell for more–than a boat that needs work of any kind…but what makes a sound boat in good mechanical working ordered, but has blisters worth less than one that has oxidized gelcoat or teak that needs to be stripped and re-varnished? Labor is labor…you’re trying to assign a different value to the labor to repair blisters vs. topside labor. But I never really mentioned the topside work or tried to assign a different value to it, so I think you may have inferred this. But now that we are on the topic, I disagree. Labor is not labor here, as almost anyone can do the type of topsides work you mention, but a blister job is beyond the general capabilities of many do-it-yourselfers, especially if you want the bottom to be fair when finished. more importantly–you’re singling out blisters as making a boat "not good," when there are other conditions that are much worse…that was my point. Peggie Again, Peggie- I advised Don four things in my post. 1) avoid blisters if you can because they do affect value (which is what he is trying to determine) 2) determine which model (FK/SK) it is as it matters when looking up the price 3) consult the BUC price guide 4) get an inventory of the boat’s equipment for fine-tuning it’s value. I added a general caveat for buying from friends, and I think no one would say that any of this was faulty advice. I never said that the boat was no good, heck I can’t even see it from here. I am sure, however, that for two Catalina 25’s of similar vintage and equipment, one with blisters and one without, the one without the blisters is a better buy every time. I also mentioned that many of the Catalina’s are in good shape, so it may not even be an issue for Don- just something to look out for. (BTW, I personally have seen a Cat 25 with about 15-20 blisters per square foot!) I know that you dispense a lot of good advice to the group and all, and I did not set out to argue with you on this, but I stand on what I have said as being sound advice to a buyer trying to determine the value of a boat. Your milage may vary. Regards, Mark Petrush p.s.- I am certain that a blister job can be satisfactorily repaired, and that some folks would be just as happy with the boat when repaired- I am also sure that other folks around the marina will likely make derogatory comments about the boat, usually when the owner is just (or maybe not quite?) out of earshot. What I am advising Don is that if the boat has blisters, he should get it for cheap or better yet pass it by. Anything can be repaired, but his time is worth something, and this job, although not rocket science, is a lot of work and materials expense. I have seen a few Cat 25’s with unbelievable amounts of blisters and many more with none. Which would you choose in a market flooded with used boats? Regards, Mark. Don- First, make sure the boat does not have hull pox (blisters)! If it does, it is not really worth much. If that were true, half the boats on the water would be worthless. Most of what you hear about blisters and what’s needed to repair them is "the sky is falling"

Response:

1. Before jumping at a boat that friends are offering to sell, you might want to think about what you really want in a boat. 2. When I was in the process of buying a 30′ sailboat, I bought a couple of books (and I even read them) to educate myself on issues that I should look for and be concerned about. You do need to be informed buyers especially if you are going to buy a used boat from a friend – to help preserve that friendship. There is a bunch of stuff the novice doesn’t even think about, but believe me, once you own it, YOU WILL. The titles that helped me: "How to buy the Best Sailboat" Chuck Gustafson " Surveying Fiberglass Sailboats" Henry C. Mustin May happy days, gentle seas and adequate winds be yours. — Jim King http://home.att.net/~sailking

Response:

After reading the various responses between Mark and Peggy, I do not think Peggy over reacted to Mark’s statement of: " Don- First, make sure the boat does not have hull pox (blisters)! If it does, it is not really worth much."

Granted, given the choice between a non-blister boat and a blistered boat, you would lean towards the non. However, as Peggy points out, if you account for the cost of the blister repair in the selling price, the blistered boat may be the better value. I also agree with Peggy about the over dramatized and devastating curse blisters have on boats. They are no different than any other area of a boat needing attention and/or maintenance; they can be repaired and the boat is no worse off than before. Greg Steckel

Response:

Whoa there, Peggie! I seem to have touched a nerve with you on the subject of blisters.

Yup. My own 1980 boat had blisters when I bought her (she had lots of other problems too, but that’s a different issue). Yes, I bought her for a reduced price…but her value once the blisters were ground out, the bottom faired and new bottom paint applied (along with all the other needed repairs and updates) was restored to fulll "high book" value. For some reason blisters–ANY blisters, small and shallow or large and deep–have come to be regarded as the worst thing that can happen to a boat…represented by so-called "experts" as all but irreparable damage that can only be cured by such expensive means as stripping off all the gelcoat, epoxy barrier coats, etc…advice that strikes terror in the wallets of most boat owners and/or potential buyers. In fact, you fed that perception when you said: I am certain that a blister job can be satisfactorily repaired, and that some folks would be just as happy with the boat when repaired- I am also sure that other folks around the marina will likely make derogatory comments about the boat, usually when the owner is just (or maybe not quite?) out of earshot.

You’re saying that that there will always be something "wrong" with a boat that’s had blisters…that’s simply not true. And that’s what I took exception to. My own 1980 boat had blisters when I bought her…survey showed the hull to be sound, not waterlogged, no indication of any rot…just a case of "acne" all over her bottom. Ground out, dried out, filled, faired and bottom painted…and she’s good as new–not only to me but to any knowledgable surveyor. Some insisted that she HAD to have an expensive epoxy barrier coat…those with more knowledge and common sense advised that a boat that old, that hadn’t been hauled in over 10 years (she’s in fresh water), has already developed all the blisters she’s ever going to and that a barrier coat would be a waste of money. As for topside labor being less expensive and time consuming than blister repair, not much can be more labor-intensive than wet-sanding a hull and stripping & re-apply 5 coats of varnish to a boat that has teak toe rails, cockpit rails, bow pulpit, taff-rails, hatches, etc, etc etc. But I digress… Blisters are NOT the "kiss of death"…and only the uninformed would make derogatory comments about a boat that has had properly repaired blisters. A survey would only note whether they had been properly repaired…and if so, even the best surveyor wouldn’t reduce the value of the boat because of it. Overall condition–including blisters–affects the market value of any boat. Although many people want a boat in "stock the cooler and go" condition, there are plenty–me included–who aren’t scared off by a sound boat in need of attention…in fact, enjoy restoring one. And blisters–repaired or in need of repair–are not a reason to avoid a boat, provided she’s sound. And with that, I’ll bow out of the discussion. Peggie But let’s not take what I advised Don the wrong way. See what – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I mean below. So, Peggie- Are you saying that you would pay the same for a blister boat as you would for a good one? Obviously, you would not. Yes I would–I did!–but only after the blisters were repaired, or with a reduction in price to cover the cost of blister repair. You claimed the boat would not be worth much if it has blisters..that the boat’s no good if it does _______ Right here: I said the boat’s not worth much, not that it’s no good. It’s just a better choice to avoid the hassle of blisters- most times a new owner wants to get on the water, not step up to a major project or yard bill. What do you think would be a fair price to have this work done? $1000.00 for a blister job is not too far out of line on a 25, so take that in consideration for a boat that typically sells for less than 10K in my area. Then add for barrier coat and paint, at least a couple hundred for materials plus labor. That’s a significant chunk of the value of the boat, and unless the seller is going to pay for it or reduce the price, why buy his boat when there are others that don’t need the work? It’s a question of relative value, not of good/not good. And value is what the original post was about. …but blisters–provided the hull is sound…not water-logged, no rot–do not reduce the value of a boat more than the cost to repair them. And I’d be more inclined to buy a 10+ year old boat that has blisters than a 1-3 year old boat with blisters…because a newer boat is likely to have more that will cost money to repair in the future, while the older boat has prob’ly gotten all it ever will. Obviously, a boat in perfect condition is a better buy, and will sell for more–than a boat that needs work of any kind…but what makes a sound boat in good mechanical working ordered, but has blisters worth less than one that has oxidized gelcoat or teak that needs to be stripped and re-varnished? Labor is labor…you’re trying to assign a different value to the labor to repair blisters vs. topside labor. But I never really mentioned the topside work or tried to assign a different value to it, so I think you may have inferred this. But now that we are on the topic, I disagree. Labor is not labor here, as almost anyone can do the type of topsides work you mention, but a blister job is beyond the general capabilities of many do-it-yourselfers, especially if you want the bottom to be fair when finished. more importantly–you’re singling out blisters as making a boat "not good," when there are other conditions that are much worse…that was my point. Peggie Again, Peggie- I advised Don four things in my post. 1) avoid blisters if you can because they do affect value (which is what he is trying to determine) 2) determine which model (FK/SK) it is as it matters when looking up the price 3) consult the BUC price guide 4) get an inventory of the boat’s equipment for fine-tuning it’s value. I added a general caveat for buying from friends, and I think no one would say that any of this was faulty advice. I never said that the boat was no good, heck I can’t even see it from here. I am sure, however, that for two Catalina 25’s of similar vintage and equipment, one with blisters and one without, the one without the blisters is a better buy every time. I also mentioned that many of the Catalina’s are in good shape, so it may not even be an issue for Don- just something to look out for. (BTW, I personally have seen a Cat 25 with about 15-20 blisters per square foot!) I know that you dispense a lot of good advice to the group and all, and I did not set out to argue with you on this, but I stand on what I have said as being sound advice to a buyer trying to determine the value of a boat. Your milage may vary. Regards, Mark Petrush p.s.- I am certain that a blister job can be satisfactorily repaired, and that some folks would be just as happy with the boat when repaired- I am also sure that other folks around the marina will likely make derogatory comments about the boat, usually when the owner is just (or maybe not quite?) out of earshot. What I am advising Don is that if the boat has blisters, he should get it for cheap or better yet pass it by. Anything can be repaired, but his time is worth something, and this job, although not rocket science, is a lot of work and materials expense. I have seen a few Cat 25’s with unbelievable amounts of blisters and many more with none. Which would you choose in a market flooded with used boats? Regards, Mark. Don- First, make sure the boat does not have hull pox (blisters)! If it does, it is not really worth much. If that were true, half the boats on the water would be worthless. Most of what you hear about blisters and what’s needed to repair them is "the sky is falling" over-reative hype. In fact, any blisters on a 1982 boat are likely to be all the blisters it will ever have, so all that’s necessary is grinding out, drying out, filling, and bottom painting. As long as the hull is sound, no reduction in value whatever beyond the cost of doing that. And btw…a 1982 boat isn’t that old! "Middle-aged" would be a better description. Peggie Also, if you haven’t already, determine if it is the swing keel or the fixed keel model. If the boat is in good shape (as most of them are) you should go ahead and look up the price in a BUC price guide at any yacht broker or at a bank or credit union. The price varies greatly with equipment, so get an inventory of what’s included in the purchase. As usual, be extra careful buying from friends. Good Luck! Regards, Mark Petrush Some friends of ours have a 1982 model Catalina 25 in fair shape which they would like to sell. My wife and I may be interested in the boat, but how do we determine what the boat is worth? (They have owned it since new, so have no idea what it is worth at this point). Suggestions? Don

Response:

Whoa there, Peggie! I seem to have touched a nerve with you on the subject of blisters. But let’s not take what I advised Don the wrong way. See what I mean below. So, Peggie- Are you saying that you would pay the same for a blister boat as you would for a good one? Obviously, you would not. Yes I would–I did!–but only after the blisters were repaired, or with a reduction in price to cover the cost of blister repair. You claimed the boat would not be worth much if it has blisters..that the boat’s no good if it does

_______ Right here: I said the boat’s not worth much, not that it’s no good. It’s just a better choice to avoid the hassle of blisters- most times a new owner wants to get on the water, not step up to a major project or yard bill. What do you think would be a fair price to have this work done? $1000.00 for a blister job is not too far out of line on a 25, so take that in consideration for a boat that typically sells for less than 10K in my area. Then add for barrier coat and paint, at least a couple hundred for materials plus labor. That’s a significant chunk of the value of the boat, and unless the seller is going to pay for it or reduce the price, why buy his boat when there are others that don’t need the work? It’s a question of relative value, not of good/not good. And value is what the original post was about. …but blisters–provided the hull is sound…not water-logged, no rot–do not reduce the value of a boat more than the cost to repair them. And I’d be more inclined to buy a 10+ year old boat that has blisters than a 1-3 year old boat with blisters…because a newer boat is likely to have more that will cost money to repair in the future, while the older boat has prob’ly gotten all it ever will. Obviously, a boat in perfect condition is a better buy, and will sell for more–than a boat that needs work of any kind…but what makes a sound boat in good mechanical working ordered, but has blisters worth less than one that has oxidized gelcoat or teak that needs to be stripped and re-varnished? Labor is labor…you’re trying to assign a different value to the labor to repair blisters vs. topside labor. But

I never really mentioned the topside work or tried to assign a different value to it, so I think you may have inferred this. But now that we are on the topic, I disagree. Labor is not labor here, as almost anyone can do the type of topsides work you mention, but a blister job is beyond the general capabilities of many do-it-yourselfers, especially if you want the bottom to be fair when finished. more importantly–you’re singling out blisters as making a boat "not good," when there are other conditions that are much worse…that was my point. Peggie

Again, Peggie- I advised Don four things in my post. 1) avoid blisters if you can because they do affect value (which is what he is trying to determine) 2) determine which model (FK/SK) it is as it matters when looking up the price 3) consult the BUC price guide 4) get an inventory of the boat’s equipment for fine-tuning it’s value. I added a general caveat for buying from friends, and I think no one would say that any of this was faulty advice. I never said that the boat was no good, heck I can’t even see it from here. I am sure, however, that for two Catalina 25’s of similar vintage and equipment, one with blisters and one without, the one without the blisters is a better buy every time. I also mentioned that many of the Catalina’s are in good shape, so it may not even be an issue for Don- just something to look out for. (BTW, I personally have seen a Cat 25 with about 15-20 blisters per square foot!) I know that you dispense a lot of good advice to the group and all, and I did not set out to argue with you on this, but I stand on what I have said as being sound advice to a buyer trying to determine the value of a boat. Your milage may vary. Regards, Mark Petrush p.s.- I am certain that a blister job can be satisfactorily repaired, and that some folks would be just as happy with the boat when repaired- I am also sure that other folks around the marina will likely make derogatory comments about the boat, usually when the owner is just (or maybe not quite?) out of earshot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What I am advising Don is that if the boat has blisters, he should get it for cheap or better yet pass it by. Anything can be repaired, but his time is worth something, and this job, although not rocket science, is a lot of work and materials expense. I have seen a few Cat 25’s with unbelievable amounts of blisters and many more with none. Which would you choose in a market flooded with used boats? Regards, Mark. Don- First, make sure the boat does not have hull pox (blisters)! If it does, it is not really worth much. If that were true, half the boats on the water would be worthless. Most of what you hear about blisters and what’s needed to repair them is "the sky is falling" over-reative hype. In fact, any blisters on a 1982 boat are likely to be all the blisters it will ever have, so all that’s necessary is grinding out, drying out, filling, and bottom painting. As long as the hull is sound, no reduction in value whatever beyond the cost of doing that. And btw…a 1982 boat isn’t that old! "Middle-aged" would be a better description. Peggie Also, if you haven’t already, determine if it is the swing keel or the fixed keel model. If the boat is in good shape (as most of them are) you should go ahead and look up the price in a BUC price guide at any yacht broker or at a bank or credit union. The price varies greatly with equipment, so get an inventory of what’s included in the purchase. As usual, be extra careful buying from friends. Good Luck! Regards, Mark Petrush Some friends of ours have a 1982 model Catalina 25 in fair shape which they would like to sell. My wife and I may be interested in the boat, but how do we determine what the boat is worth? (They have owned it since new, so have no idea what it is worth at this point). Suggestions? Don W. aclarity_at_aol_dot_com

Response:

So, Peggie- Are you saying that you would pay the same for a blister boat as you would for a good one? Obviously, you would not.

Yes I would–I did!–but only after the blisters were repaired, or with a reduction in price to cover the cost of blister repair. You claimed the boat would not be worth much if it has blisters..that the boat’s no good if it does…but blisters–provided the hull is sound…not water-logged, no rot–do not reduce the value of a boat more than the cost to repair them. And I’d be more inclined to buy a 10+ year old boat that has blisters than a 1-3 year old boat with blisters…because a newer boat is likely to have more that will cost money to repair in the future, while the older boat has prob’ly gotten all it ever will. Obviously, a boat in perfect condition is a better buy, and will sell for more–than a boat that needs work of any kind…but what makes a sound boat in good mechanical working ordered, but has blisters worth less than one that has oxidized gelcoat or teak that needs to be stripped and re-varnished? Labor is labor…you’re trying to assign a different value to the labor to repair blisters vs. topside labor. But more importantly–you’re singling out blisters as making a boat "not good," when there are other conditions that are much worse…that was my point. Peggie What I am advising Don is that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if the boat has blisters, he should get it for cheap or better yet pass it by. Anything can be repaired, but his time is worth something, and this job, although not rocket science, is a lot of work and materials expense. I have seen a few Cat 25’s with unbelievable amounts of blisters and many more with none. Which would you choose in a market flooded with used boats? Regards, Mark. Don- First, make sure the boat does not have hull pox (blisters)! If it does, it is not really worth much. If that were true, half the boats on the water would be worthless. Most of what you hear about blisters and what’s needed to repair them is "the sky is falling" over-reative hype. In fact, any blisters on a 1982 boat are likely to be all the blisters it will ever have, so all that’s necessary is grinding out, drying out, filling, and bottom painting. As long as the hull is sound, no reduction in value whatever beyond the cost of doing that. And btw…a 1982 boat isn’t that old! "Middle-aged" would be a better description. Peggie Also, if you haven’t already, determine if it is the swing keel or the fixed keel model. If the boat is in good shape (as most of them are) you should go ahead and look up the price in a BUC price guide at any yacht broker or at a bank or credit union. The price varies greatly with equipment, so get an inventory of what’s included in the purchase. As usual, be extra careful buying from friends. Good Luck! Regards, Mark Petrush Some friends of ours have a 1982 model Catalina 25 in fair shape which they would like to sell. My wife and I may be interested in the boat, but how do we determine what the boat is worth? (They have owned it since new, so have no idea what it is worth at this point). Suggestions? Don W. aclarity_at_aol_dot_com

Response:

Don- First, make sure the boat does not have hull pox (blisters)! If it does, it is not really worth much. Also, if you haven’t already, determine if it is the swing keel or the fixed keel model. If the boat is in good shape (as most of them are) you should go ahead and look up the price in a BUC price guide at any yacht broker or at a bank or credit union. The price varies greatly with equipment, so get an inventory of what’s included in the purchase. As usual, be extra careful buying from friends. Good Luck! Regards, Mark Petrush

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Some friends of ours have a 1982 model Catalina 25 in fair shape which they would like to sell. My wife and I may be interested in the boat, but how do we determine what the boat is worth? (They have owned it since new, so have no idea what it is worth at this point). Suggestions? Don W. aclarity_at_aol_dot_com

Response:

Some friends of ours have a 1982 model Catalina 25 in fair shape which they would like to sell. My wife and I may be interested in the boat, but how do we determine what the boat is worth? (They have owned it since new, so have no idea what it is worth at this point). Suggestions? Don W. aclarity_at_aol_dot_com

Response:

Tell them to start by checking with their insurance company or any lender who finances boats…or talk to a Catalina dealer. They’ll all have copies of the NADA used boat value guide…the dealer may also have the BUC book. That will give you a fair "jumping off" place…then do as Cheryl suggested: look at comparable boats (age, size, condition) for sale in your area…local circumstances often affect the prices of boats…a "hot" model on a particular lake will sell high…a glut on the local market of a make/model can drive prices up. There’s nothing difficult or arcane about establishing the fair market value of a boat…it just requires doing a little homework. Peggie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some friends of ours have a 1982 model Catalina 25 in fair shape which they would like to sell. My wife and I may be interested in the boat, but how do we determine what the boat is worth? (They have owned it since new, so have no idea what it is worth at this point). Suggestions? Don W. aclarity_at_aol_dot_com

Response:

So, Peggie- Are you saying that you would pay the same for a blister boat as you would for a good one? Obviously, you would not. What I am advising Don is that if the boat has blisters, he should get it for cheap or better yet pass it by. Anything can be repaired, but his time is worth something, and this job, although not rocket science, is a lot of work and materials expense. I have seen a few Cat 25’s with unbelievable amounts of blisters and many more with none. Which would you choose in a market flooded with used boats? Regards, Mark. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don- First, make sure the boat does not have hull pox (blisters)! If it does, it is not really worth much. If that were true, half the boats on the water would be worthless. Most of what you hear about blisters and what’s needed to repair them is "the sky is falling" over-reative hype. In fact, any blisters on a 1982 boat are likely to be all the blisters it will ever have, so all that’s necessary is grinding out, drying out, filling, and bottom painting. As long as the hull is sound, no reduction in value whatever beyond the cost of doing that. And btw…a 1982 boat isn’t that old! "Middle-aged" would be a better description. Peggie Also, if you haven’t already, determine if it is the swing keel or the fixed keel model. If the boat is in good shape (as most of them are) you should go ahead and look up the price in a BUC price guide at any yacht broker or at a bank or credit union. The price varies greatly with equipment, so get an inventory of what’s included in the purchase. As usual, be extra careful buying from friends. Good Luck! Regards, Mark Petrush Some friends of ours have a 1982 model Catalina 25 in fair shape which they would like to sell. My wife and I may be interested in the boat, but how do we determine what the boat is worth? (They have owned it since new, so have no idea what it is worth at this point). Suggestions? Don W. aclarity_at_aol_dot_com

Response:

Don- First, make sure the boat does not have hull pox (blisters)! If it does, it is not really worth much.

Response:

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