High school experiences

Question:

MrWigglesworth wrote: > Hi there, > I thought I’d share some of my experiences from high school. Does anyone > have any similar tales to tell?

O_o bhp, is that you? > Back in high school I was a nerd. I still am, but back then I fitted the > stereotype a little better. Skinny, acne, braces, studious etc. The guys

Were you quiet too? Were there no other "nerds" or "geeks" in the school to hang with? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> would call me all sorts of names (I got beat up a few times, but thankfully > I wasn’t subjected to daily beatings) and the girls favourite trick was to > flirt with me and then laugh at me and call me a nerd. I remember the > girls being a lot crueler, simply because the abuse from the guy’s was > pretty direct and straightforward. They would call me a names or > whatever. I could deal with that. The girls would constantly tease, > trick and lie to me. I don’t know why. It’s not like I would creep girls > out by stalking them or anything. I pretty ignored the female gender > altogether. > I remember this time a girl came up to me and asked me out on a date. At > first I was skeptical, but she wasn’t one of the regular group who used to > pick on me, so I accepted. We arranged to meet at a bus stop near a local > movie theatre. I dressed up in my coolest clothes and waited. Twenty > minutes after the scheduled time a car peals around the corner. I > recognise it as belonging to one of the guys from school. I make out the > face of the girl I was supposed to meet, along with several of the guys > and girls who used to pick on me. As they passed me they threw a bunch of > garbage at me, sprayed me with water and called me a bunch of names. I > stood there in shock, dripping and covered in fast food wrappers. It was > a Saturday afternoon and there were a lot of teenagers about. They all > laughed at me. Nobody stopped to help, or asked me if I was okay. Had I > eerie psychic powers, I would have gone Carrie on their asses. I tried to > maintain some dignity as I brushed myself off and started to walk home, but > as soon as I rounded the corner I just started to run. Tears were > streaming from my eyes. When I got home I locked myself in my room and > just lay there for hours. > Thankfully I hadn’t told anyone about the "date" (I was a little > suspicious to begin with) and that group kept their little prank to > themselves. It was a little private joke they had, though they would > continue to tease me about it. In fact, we did this little exercise where

You have my sympathy… > everyone had to write something good about everyone else and put it in that > person’s envelope (Catholic school, heh). That girl wrote something about > me being a really good date. God, what a bitch.

So, what did you put in /her/ envelope? "Lying slut, I hope you’re possessed by poltergeists" I hope *evil cackle* — Everybody in the world ought to be sorry for everybody else. We all have our little private hell. — Bettina von Hutten, _The Halo_ (1907) Meet other Shybies in person- http://shyness.meetup.com/

Response:

(sorry for the double post) MrWigglesworth wrote: > Hi there, > I thought I’d share some of my experiences from high school. Does anyone > have any similar tales to tell?

O_o bhp, is that you? > Back in high school I was a nerd. I still am, but back then I fitted the > stereotype a little better. Skinny, acne, braces, studious etc. The guys

You have my sympathy… Anyone remember when someone in class would "borrow" stuff? A pencil, paper, lunch money? If you got something in return, lucky you. I never did. Borrow just meant, hey I think you’re dumb enough to steal from so thanks sucker. > everyone had to write something good about everyone else and put it in that > person’s envelope (Catholic school, heh). That girl wrote something about > me being a really good date. God, what a bitch.

Response:

"Bernd Jendrissek" <ber…@prism.co.za> in news:cvn7rr$iak$3@penguin.wetton.example.org: > They might have considered avoiding them "like the plague" as uncivil!

in HS, some do, saying: "your antisocial! you creep! stalker! " (just for existing quietly) > Just like DF considers their avoidance of him as "uncivil".

an interesting (further) damnation of those girls… :> >>I don’t know if I’d forgive the particular girls that made fun of me, >>but that was a million years ago and I couldn’t care less where they >>are today. > Is there any real difference w.r.t moral culpability between girls who > *actually* made fun of *you in particular*, and girls who *could have* > done so, given more time and/or opportunities?

however those who planned but never did, may also be rare. > I ask because this, to me, is a HUGE part of the idea of morality and > forgiveness.

virtual culpability, and virtual forgiveness? >>Another thing that affected me about the girls "bullying" me is that I >>didn’t know how to react. >>I mean, you can’t take a swing at them.

"here…" as you jam thorny roses into their faces "ooops! … oh, i’m such a clumsy nerd… " ? > Exactly! They know this! That’s part of their advantage of supposedly >"seeing the social matrix" at a younger age than boys do. They’re > testing their new-found powers like spiderman who accidentally crawls up > an office block wall in his business suit just after the spider bit him > (old film). > _The Myth of Male Power_ springs to mind. > (Most) (Western) men have graciously relinquished one source of power – > their greater physical strength. Have women reigned in their behaviour > concomitantly at all? No! Quite the opposite, I think.

but it’s *silicon*! :> … > Maybe you will, and maybe you won’t, but maybe also some young girl is > reading this right now, shortly before an opportunity tempts her to > bully some seemingly weak boy. [Gendered pronouns used only because > they were in the OP - it goes both ways really.] This possibility might > remind her that yes, her actions *do* have consequences. > My only ethical dilemma is if it’s even useful to hold people > accountable for something they may have done decades ago. I’m tending > to think yes, it is useful, but not if they did [whatever] as kids. Few > kids are self-aware enough to be *deciding* to bully someone. OTOH

neutering. end the cruddy lineage ASAP. > Imagine, in 40 years, a little child asking its grandfather, "Grandpa, > why do we live in a dump?" "Because I never got a good job." "Why?" >"Because after I interviewed for those jobs, they googled me and rather > found someone else." "Why?" "(Sob!) Because I made some poor kid’s > life hell when I was young (*) and he named me in a usenet post! > Boohoo! How should I have known he woulda done that??!? Boohoo!!!" > (*) …and didn’t know any better, but that makes no difference to the > bullyee.

– Warning: The Surgeon General has determined that vampires can cause severe anemia. Stay out of belfries.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 In article <409a12f99d23af3192bb563ff9c7c…@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com> MrWigglesworth <justsa…@to.spam> wrote: >If that small group had realised how profoundly their actions had >affected me I wonder how they’d feel.

They’d tell you to "take responsibility" and "just get over it". Can you forgive adult women now, who you can easily imagine having humiliated other little boys like yourself in their schools? /me is glad *girls* didn’t bully me much. – — A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet? —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQFCHvdP/FmLrNfLpjMRAuFrAJ0VvmSeWsa6dM+rIcGx/MBzGaU/kQCfRRfY ykDwJcUey8KYjNuhTdQByf8= =gJMi —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

Well I found that bullying advice came in two forms: 1) "Stand up for yourself and they’ll respect you." I did this a few times. I got my ass handed to me. I guess I expected the bully to go down in one punch, like in the movies. I was scrawny and about a foot shorter than most of the guys (I went through puberty pretty late). They kicked my ass and laughed the whole time. 2) "Ignore them and they’ll get bored and go away." This is what I did most of the time and it didn’t really work either. Somehow they interpreted my ignoring them as a sign that they could ruffle me. That or they just escalated things until I had no choice but to react.

Response:

>They’d tell you to "take responsibility" and >"just get over it".

Yeah, probably. I am over it now, but it still affected me more than it should have. >Can you forgive adult women now, who you can >easily imagine having humiliated other little >boys like yourself in their schools?

Haha, of course. What am I forgiving adult women for? Though it seemed like it at the time, it wasn’t ALL women that bullied me… only a handful. Unlike some people (eg Darkfalz) I can make that distinction. Most girls were civil to me, though I avoided them like the plague. Looking back now I think a couple even liked me, even if I was too cynical/stupid to realise it back then. I don’t know if I’d forgive the particular girls that made fun of me, but that was a million years ago and I couldn’t care less where they are today. Another thing that affected me about the girls "bullying" me is that I didn’t know how to react. I mean, you can’t take a swing at them. Yelling at them seemed… ungentlemanly to me. Even if I had I’d probably be pummelled by their rugby playing boyfriends. I couldn’t even tell anyone about it. What was I supposed to say? That I was being bullied by girls? I’d never hear the end of it. This from good Catholic girls… LOL!

Response:

> I thought I’d share some of my experiences from high school. Does anyone > have any similar tales to tell? > Back in high school I was a nerd. I still am, but back then I fitted the > stereotype a little better. Skinny, acne, braces, studious etc.

that was me too! >The guys > would call me all sorts of names (I got beat up a few times, but thankfully > I wasn’t subjected to daily beatings)

I’ve been called something like 30 different names……. and usually was beaten at school almost everyday. My popolarity has always been almost 0, I also feared a lot gyms and sport activity since I considered them as a symbolic place where you don’t count much intellectualy, only phisically. > and the girls favourite trick was to > flirt with me and then laugh at me and call me a nerd. I remember the > girls being a lot crueler, simply because the abuse from the guy’s was > pretty direct and straightforward. They would call me a names or > whatever. I could deal with that. The girls would constantly tease, > trick and lie to me. I don’t know why. It’s not like I would creep girls > out by stalking them or anything. I pretty ignored the female gender > altogether.

Girls can be really cruel, my experience here is a little different: most of my bullies were males, but I have received some minor teasing from girls too… anyway nothing compared to males (who phisically used to beat me up as soon as possible). Anyway I’ve almost never been flirted by girls (and that was a thing I was always looking forward to,but now that I read this it seems like I’ve been lucky… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I remember this time a girl came up to me and asked me out on a date. At > first I was skeptical, but she wasn’t one of the regular group who used to > pick on me, so I accepted. We arranged to meet at a bus stop near a local > movie theatre. I dressed up in my coolest clothes and waited. Twenty > minutes after the scheduled time a car peals around the corner. I > recognise it as belonging to one of the guys from school. I make out the > face of the girl I was supposed to meet, along with several of the guys > and girls who used to pick on me. As they passed me they threw a bunch of > garbage at me, sprayed me with water and called me a bunch of names. I > stood there in shock, dripping and covered in fast food wrappers. It was > a Saturday afternoon and there were a lot of teenagers about. They all > laughed at me. Nobody stopped to help, or asked me if I was okay. Had I > eerie psychic powers, I would have gone Carrie on their asses. I tried to > maintain some dignity as I brushed myself off and started to walk home, but > as soon as I rounded the corner I just started to run. Tears were > streaming from my eyes. When I got home I locked myself in my room and > just lay there for hours. > Thankfully I hadn’t told anyone about the "date" (I was a little > suspicious to begin with) and that group kept their little prank to > themselves. It was a little private joke they had, though they would > continue to tease me about it. In fact, we did this little exercise where > everyone had to write something good about everyone else and put it in that > person’s envelope (Catholic school, heh). That girl wrote something about > me being a really good date. God, what a bitch.

[..cut...] This story really touches me a lot, because I perfectly know how it is like. Now when I look back to that years I see that period as a big "black hole", I can also state that one of the things that REALLY made me feel bad about myself and sad was all that tons of bullying and teasing I have received at high school (and not only…) The bad thing, however, is that it happens to me quite often to remember that days and feeling all that "phantoms" coming back to my head: it’s a very nasty feeling.. I also still fear many of that people, because I’m pretty sure that all that can happen again ( AND I’m REALLLYY!! SURE OF THIS…….) also because besides the fact that some years have passed, I have NEVER learned how to cope with bullies… now my best startegy is STILL that of running away. I also hate a lot people who say "ignore them"… my experience has showed that that doesn’t work, Also the startegy "fight back" is useless: everytime I used to fight them, they found my aggressive behaviour as an excuse to bully and beating me up even more and more… > If that small group had realised how profoundly their actions had affected > me I wonder how they’d feel. For the next few years I couldn’t even > imagine having a girlfriend. Females had dissappeared from my radar. I > got a few advances, but I ignored them because I was certain it was > another elaborate prank. If someone asked me if I had a girlfriend I’d > laugh and say "Yeah, right!" as if it was the most ludicrous thing I’d > ever heard.

I spent most of my teen years trying to "cope" with bullies and I can state that by being constantly teased at school, I never cared much about the girls out there, because I marked all that social environment as "feared zone". I remember at school, I was looking forward for the end to go back home and close myself in my room. > Essentially I drifted right through my teenage years and early twenties > without forming a relationship. I’d partially gotten over my fear of > women… I had plenty of female friends, probably too many. Too afraid to > approach women romantically, though. Cold approaches? Forget it, I > couldn’t even make eye contact. And by the time I got over things it was > no longer socially acceptable to be a clueless idiot with relationships.

Anyway you have made progress and i wish you good luck. I think that the best behaviour for pepole like us would be that of getting rid of our past…

Response:

Hardpan <hard…@yahoo.com> in news:1jqt11lslabvau4hoi2qgv6haf1bkbdtqr@4ax.com: > On 25 Feb 2005 00:22:30 -0800, "Gray Loser" <gray_lo…@hotmail.com> > wrote: >>Hardpan wrote: >>> On 24 Feb 2005 23:43:41 -0800, "Gray Loser" <gray_lo…@hotmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >KC Carter wrote: >>> >> Steve wrote:

.. .. … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> There are some sick fucks out there in the world, to be sure. >>Especially teens. At some point, though, it becomes impractical to >>bully other adults. So they graduate to taking it out on their wife, >>kids, employees, etc. > Indeed so! > The problem that most of them run into as adults is: > A; They not longer have the buddies around to protect them and give > them confidence. Loners like me, have the advantage after class is out > forever and we have long memories.:-) > B: Jail-time as an adult is a real bitch, what with criminal records, > and all and they quickly realize it when they try to pull the same > crap they did back in high school and get taken down for the count. > Lifes a real bitch sometimes <grin>!

unfortunately by the time they’re in prison, it’s for committing even worse offenses than bullying. the criminals really shoudl be stopped sooner. >>> Did you ever take any revenge out on these creeps?

.. > I wasn’t talking about direct confrontation while still in school. > Since bullies in HS are usually well connected with frat/team buddies > and are physically stronger then their prey at the time, that’s next > to impossible to accomplish. > I was thinking more along the lines of indirect revenge by damaging > their reputations and/or their property, something I became quite good > at back in the day. <bg>

hmm :> — Warning: The Surgeon General has determined that vampires can cause severe anemia. Stay out of belfries.

Response:

"MrWigglesworth" <justsa…@to.spam> in news:409a12f99d23af3192bb563ff9c7cda5@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com: .. > Back in high school I was a nerd. I still am, but back then I fitted > the stereotype a little better. Skinny, acne, braces, studious etc. > The guys would call me all sorts of names (I got beat up a few times, > but thankfully I wasn’t subjected to daily beatings) and the girls > favourite trick was to flirt with me and then laugh at me and call me > a nerd. I remember the girls being a lot crueler, simply because the > abuse from the guy’s was pretty direct and straightforward. They > would call me a names or whatever. I could deal with that. The girls > would constantly tease, trick and lie to me. I don’t know why. It’s > not like I would creep girls out by stalking them or anything. I > pretty ignored the female gender altogether. > I remember this time a girl came up to me and asked me out on a date. > At first I was skeptical, but she wasn’t one of the regular group who > used to pick on me, so I accepted.

.. >They all laughed at me. Nobody > stopped to help, or asked me if I was okay. Had I eerie psychic > powers, I would have gone Carrie on their asses.

burn… .. > When I got home I locked myself in my room > and just lay there for hours.

i guess we’re all supposed to get over this, as if it was just an accident… > Thankfully I hadn’t told anyone about the "date" (I was a little > suspicious to begin with) and that group kept their little prank to > themselves. It was a little private joke they had, though they would > continue to tease me about it. In fact, we did this little exercise > where everyone had to write something good about everyone else and put > it in that person’s envelope (Catholic school, heh). That girl wrote > something about me being a really good date. God, what a bitch.

"but gave good head on our date" is what you (wish you) wrote in your note (if you had predicted her note)? :> > If that small group had realised how profoundly their actions had > affected me I wonder how they’d feel.

honestly, i think a few would care if, a few eyars later, they considered the prank… but i suspect some still think it’s funny. >For the next few years I > couldn’t even imagine having a girlfriend. Females had dissappeared > from my radar. I got a few advances, but I ignored them because I was > certain it was another elaborate prank. If someone asked me if I had > a girlfriend I’d laugh and say "Yeah, right!" as if it was the most > ludicrous thing I’d ever heard. > Essentially I drifted right through my teenage years and early > twenties without forming a relationship. I’d partially gotten over my > fear of women… I had plenty of female friends, probably too many.

better than me. but i was never vistim of a conspiracy, as you were. and girls were only once mean to me in HS. they ignored me from elementary on. > Too afraid to approach women romantically, though. Cold approaches? > Forget it, I couldn’t even make eye contact. And by the time I got > over things it was no longer socially acceptable to be a clueless > idiot with relationships.

fake it. About how old are you now? > Mr Wigglesworth

– Warning: The Surgeon General has determined that vampires can cause severe anemia. Stay out of belfries.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 In article <34795dcb744549b31d2bace28eaa1…@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com> MrWigglesworth <justsa…@to.spam> wrote: >>They’d tell you to "take responsibility" and "just get over it". >Yeah, probably. I am over it now, but it still affected me more than >it should have.

I forgot to add that they’d probably say that houghtily, smugly. They might even add, "the past is the past", which is a favourite thing to say among people who’s stuffed up their lives and now want to "start over". >>Can you forgive adult women now, who you can easily imagine having >>humiliated other little boys like yourself in their schools?

The other difficulty is that being "evil" is more a matter of sufficient time and opportunity, than of any "character flaws". They’re *all* like "that". And all men too, for that matter. Grmhrmmmhmm I’m starting to grind my mental gears on girl vs. boy bullying, the alleged earlier development of social awareness in girls, cruelty vs. opportunism vs. callousness, and a few other things. >Haha, of course. What am I forgiving adult women for?

Is there anything to forgive? It may be like "forgiving" a rock for having stubbed your toe against it. The verb "forgive" seems like an awful presupposition (NLP alert), but I don’t have any clue exactly *what* it presupposes. >Though it seemed like it at the time, it wasn’t ALL women that bullied >me… only a handful. Unlike some people (eg Darkfalz) I can make that >distinction.

He would say that that’s because he’s uglier than you (or I), and it’s a distinct possibility, but I can’t remember clearly enough any specific interactions between a schoolmate who (I think) would make Jim Summers proud for a.s.s-worthiness and the girls in our class. Maybe I was just too self-absorbed to notice much of it, but I do seem to recall (*) more overt bitchiness toward him than to me. BTW as in your Saturday bus stop pseudodate, there were boys involved; it’s possible they were the TRUE EVIL puppet masters and the girl was just going along, maybe seeking his approval. (*) Nice synesthesia (?) – "SEEM to reCALL" >Most girls were civil to me, though I avoided them like the plague.

They might have considered avoiding them "like the plague" as uncivil! Just like DF considers their avoidance of him as "uncivil". >I don’t know if I’d forgive the particular girls that made fun of me, >but that was a million years ago and I couldn’t care less where they >are today.

Is there any real difference w.r.t moral culpability between girls who *actually* made fun of *you in particular*, and girls who *could have* done so, given more time and/or opportunities? I ask because this, to me, is a HUGE part of the idea of morality and forgiveness. >Another thing that affected me about the girls "bullying" me is that I >didn’t know how to react. >I mean, you can’t take a swing at them.

Exactly! They know this! That’s part of their advantage of supposedly "seeing the social matrix" at a younger age than boys do. They’re testing their new-found powers like spiderman who accidentally crawls up an office block wall in his business suit just after the spider bit him (old film). _The Myth of Male Power_ springs to mind. (Most) (Western) men have graciously relinquished one source of power – their greater physical strength. Have women reigned in their behaviour concomitantly at all? No! Quite the opposite, I think. They’ve been "empowering" themselves – adopted many of the worst qualities of men. >I couldn’t even tell anyone about it. What was I supposed to say? >That I was being bullied by girls? I’d never hear the end of it.

One a.s.s icon could be a boy, bound and gagged, surrounded by "public awareness program" posters urging people to "speak out" about their problems. And "empowered" women lining up outside therapists’ offices to the applause of "society" (including the bound and gagged boy). Steve, you have your work cut out for you if you want to help the bound and gagged. >This from good Catholic girls… LOL!

Name and shame them. Right here. Real names and all. Maybe you will, and maybe you won’t, but maybe also some young girl is reading this right now, shortly before an opportunity tempts her to bully some seemingly weak boy. [Gendered pronouns used only because they were in the OP - it goes both ways really.] This possibility might remind her that yes, her actions *do* have consequences. My only ethical dilemma is if it’s even useful to hold people accountable for something they may have done decades ago. I’m tending to think yes, it is useful, but not if they did [whatever] as kids. Few kids are self-aware enough to be *deciding* to bully someone. OTOH their parents seem to need more motivation to raise their children well. Imagine, in 40 years, a little child asking its grandfather, "Grandpa, why do we live in a dump?" "Because I never got a good job." "Why?" "Because after I interviewed for those jobs, they googled me and rather found someone else." "Why?" "(Sob!) Because I made some poor kid’s life hell when I was young (*) and he named me in a usenet post! Boohoo! How should I have known he woulda done that??!? Boohoo!!!" (*) …and didn’t know any better, but that makes no difference to the bullyee. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQFCHzzI/FmLrNfLpjMRArO8AKCGFWtrC7wyiAAuxMD0+RF6adCNQACfRfgI wtLd9bm0YpOjTJHndHT8WGc= =XAy6 —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

"Hardpan" <hard…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:mu0v11tfjkgdoosbn2hu35knm4hpnnk7bh@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:17:09 -0500, "The Babaloughesian" > <babaloughes…@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >"Gray Loser" <gray_lo…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >news:1109319750.731103.38520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com… > >> Hardpan wrote: > >> > On 24 Feb 2005 23:43:41 -0800, "Gray Loser" <gray_lo…@hotmail.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > >KC Carter wrote: > >> > >> Steve wrote: > >> > >> People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses > >> > >that > >> > >> they can’t be bullied. > >> > >Nonsense. I consistently ignored bullies in high school, yet they > >> > >continued to bully me. Perhaps *some* bullies lose interest when > >> the > >> > >victim fails to react, but some just continue to get off on the > >> > >sadistic thrill of tormenting another human being. > >> > You are correct. > >> > There are some sick fucks out there in the world, to be sure. > >> Especially teens. At some point, though, it becomes impractical to > >> bully other adults. > >It becomes impractical to bully them physically. That’s when the > >manipulative mind games start. > Can you go into more detail here? > I am assuming that you mean the person being bullied, not the bullies > themselves who are usually low IQ losers incapable of playing mind > games.

Half correct. I am not talking about the specific individuals who are high school bullies. I’m talking about the overall category of sick fucks. People who get off on the thrill of tormenting another human being. A category of which high school bullies are a subset. As the skillset particular to high school bullies becomes impractical to use, different subsets of sick fucks take over.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -KC Carter wrote: > Gray Loser wrote: > > KC Carter wrote: > > > Steve wrote: > > > > Thanks for that post Mr Wigglesworth, it touched me a lot. I > think > > > the > > > > biggest misunderstanding about youth these days is that people > just > > > > don’t know how profound the experiences are in shaping a person’s > > > life. > > > > The adolescent is experiencing a major formation of identity and > > > > self-concept. It’s ridiculous to assume that the HS student has > > > ADULT > > > > level coping skills and strategies to deal with stressful > > situations, > > > > yet this is exactly what many parents and teachers do assume. > > > > In my experience, I can’t count the number of times that > authority > > > > figures responded with pat answers to traumatic experiences in my > > > early > > > > HS years. For example: > > > > "You’re adults now, so you can sort this problem out on your > own." > > > > Uh, no. > > > > "Just don’t put up with that kind of stuff." > > > > Right. > > > > "Ignore that guy, then the behavior won’t be reinforced." > > > > If only it were that simple. > > > > Fortunately, such attitudes are changing as there is now more > > > awareness > > > > about the effects of bullying on self-esteem. My studies of > > > > educational research show that it seems to be going beyond the > > whole > > > > behavioralist approach, and looking more into the ‘whole nature’ > of > > > the > > > > person. In that light, the bullying phenomenon is being taken > more > > > > seriously than it used to. > > > > Still, there is no denying the brutality and savagery of bullies > > and > > > > their behavior. I saw a video in class the other day about lions > > and > > > > hyenas. In the film, hyenas would circle around a pack lions, > > > isolate > > > > the female, then visciously attack the ‘adolescent’ cubs. The > male > > > > leader would be absent in such cases, as those lions have the > drive > > > to > > > > kill – hence hyenas fear them. Hyenas take a more cowardly or > > sneaky > > > > form of attack (hence their laughing), while lions go for the > > direct > > > > kills. > > > > As I watched that video, I couldn’t help but think that bullies > > > aren’t > > > > much different, whether they choose a hyena or lion-like style of > > > > attack. > > > > Steve > > > People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses > > that > > > they can’t be bullied. > > Nonsense. I consistently ignored bullies in high school, yet they > > continued to bully me. Perhaps *some* bullies lose interest when the > > victim fails to react, but some just continue to get off on the > > sadistic thrill of tormenting another human being. > So you did feel torment, then?

Tormenting is not quite the same as causing the other to feel torment (the latter has much stronger connotations, I think). > I don’t define that as ignoring the bullying.

Ignoring usually means not registering a visible reaction. > Ignoring bullying is when you don’t care and it’s irrelevant > to you. If it hurts you, then you’re not ignoring it. They kept at you > because they sensed you were hurt.

I have a pretty good poker face. I think you’re just wrong on that one. Some bullies will quit; others won’t.

Response:

mosanx wrote: > I’ve been called something like 30 different names……. and > usually was beaten at school almost everyday. My popolarity > has always been almost 0, I also feared a lot gyms and sport > activity since I considered them as a symbolic place where > you don’t count much intellectualy, only phisically.

It’s about time someone attempted some humor in here, but you still have a ways to go to reach Adia Thermanous. Virgo Cluster . "[10 Eponymous Body Parts] (#4) Santorini’s muscle .. (in the face)." << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless .. Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, p. 205 >>

Response:

jizzlob…@intergate.com wrote in news:1109353659.474521.134760 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: > 6th grade, someone next to me was > verbally teasing me, quietly, right in class. I hauled off and socked > him right in the face. The teacher didnt see it, her back was turned to > the chalkboard, but just about everyone else did. He started to cry

This exact thing happened with me (same grade, even). It’s the only time I stood up for myself that it actually worked. He was smaller than me and wasn’t connected to any gangs, so that probably explains it.

Response:

"MrWigglesworth" <justsa…@to.spam> wrote in news:8f7e3559c9b34ea7933ccd9a65dbf4b8@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com: > Well I found that bullying advice came in two forms: > 1) "Stand up for yourself and they’ll respect you." > I did this a few times. I got my ass handed to me. I guess I > expected the bully to go down in one punch, like in the movies. I was > scrawny and about a foot shorter than most of the guys (I went through > puberty pretty late). They kicked my ass and laughed the whole time.

Most of the time I was bullied by guys who were early bloomers (were practically full-grown adults at 13), or who were part of gangs (not always street gangs, but sometimes). In neither case would getting into a fight have been a good decision. > 2) "Ignore them and they’ll get bored and go away." > This is what I did most of the time and it didn’t really work either. > Somehow they interpreted my ignoring them as a sign that they could > ruffle me. That or they just escalated things until I had no choice > but to react.

If the bully is bullying solely for attention, and isn’t particularly motivated, then ignoring them will work. These aren’t really what we’d call bullies, though. They’re more like "bored jackasses." If the bully is bullying as part of a posturing ritual–for the respect of his peers–then ignoring him will only escalate things. The bully will be seen as ineffective (weak) to those he’s trying to impress if he can’t command an ineffective response from his prey. Peer respect is far more motivating than "I want to be less bored."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gray Loser wrote: > KC Carter wrote: > > Steve wrote: > > > Thanks for that post Mr Wigglesworth, it touched me a lot. I think > > the > > > biggest misunderstanding about youth these days is that people just > > > don’t know how profound the experiences are in shaping a person’s > > life. > > > The adolescent is experiencing a major formation of identity and > > > self-concept. It’s ridiculous to assume that the HS student has > > ADULT > > > level coping skills and strategies to deal with stressful > situations, > > > yet this is exactly what many parents and teachers do assume. > > > In my experience, I can’t count the number of times that authority > > > figures responded with pat answers to traumatic experiences in my > > early > > > HS years. For example: > > > "You’re adults now, so you can sort this problem out on your own." > > > Uh, no. > > > "Just don’t put up with that kind of stuff." > > > Right. > > > "Ignore that guy, then the behavior won’t be reinforced." > > > If only it were that simple. > > > Fortunately, such attitudes are changing as there is now more > > awareness > > > about the effects of bullying on self-esteem. My studies of > > > educational research show that it seems to be going beyond the > whole > > > behavioralist approach, and looking more into the ‘whole nature’ of > > the > > > person. In that light, the bullying phenomenon is being taken more > > > seriously than it used to. > > > Still, there is no denying the brutality and savagery of bullies > and > > > their behavior. I saw a video in class the other day about lions > and > > > hyenas. In the film, hyenas would circle around a pack lions, > > isolate > > > the female, then visciously attack the ‘adolescent’ cubs. The male > > > leader would be absent in such cases, as those lions have the drive > > to > > > kill – hence hyenas fear them. Hyenas take a more cowardly or > sneaky > > > form of attack (hence their laughing), while lions go for the > direct > > > kills. > > > As I watched that video, I couldn’t help but think that bullies > > aren’t > > > much different, whether they choose a hyena or lion-like style of > > > attack. > > > Steve > > People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses > that > > they can’t be bullied. > Nonsense. I consistently ignored bullies in high school, yet they > continued to bully me. Perhaps *some* bullies lose interest when the > victim fails to react, but some just continue to get off on the > sadistic thrill of tormenting another human being.

So you did feel torment, then? I don’t define that as ignoring the bullying. Ignoring bullying is when you don’t care and it’s irrelevant to you. If it hurts you, then you’re not ignoring it. They kept at you because they sensed you were hurt. KC

Response:

"Gray Loser" <gray_lo…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1109319750.731103.38520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hardpan wrote: > > On 24 Feb 2005 23:43:41 -0800, "Gray Loser" <gray_lo…@hotmail.com> > > wrote: > > >KC Carter wrote: > > >> Steve wrote: > > >> People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses > > >that > > >> they can’t be bullied. > > >Nonsense. I consistently ignored bullies in high school, yet they > > >continued to bully me. Perhaps *some* bullies lose interest when > the > > >victim fails to react, but some just continue to get off on the > > >sadistic thrill of tormenting another human being. > > You are correct. > > There are some sick fucks out there in the world, to be sure. > Especially teens. At some point, though, it becomes impractical to > bully other adults.

It becomes impractical to bully them physically. That’s when the manipulative mind games start.

Response:

MrWigglesworth wrote: > Well I found that bullying advice came in two forms: > 1) "Stand up for yourself and they’ll respect you." > 2) "Ignore them and they’ll get bored and go away."

I agree that neither will work. The reasons the bullies use don’t have grounds so it’s impossible to stand up against them. Ignoring would just make it worse and maybe physical, since they need to use harder means to get the attention. Third advice would be to tell a teacher. It could get them in trouble once, but they aren’t stupid and would take it outside of school. Now that I think of it, I remember a friend of mine that was making some insults to me sometimes, but then we had a good wrestling match in the snowy gutter and I think the insulting ceased after that. Don’t know if either of us won. This was not a really serious thing and the exception proves the rule. We are good buddies still and I have noticed that he still often makes rude comments towards others. I don’t know if he is even aware of it.

Response:

I went through a lot of the same problems, but much earlier. It mostly tapered off by high school and I was isolated, hanging out with 2 other "losers" and some other people who would drift in and out of our tight circle. But although I wouldn’t always fight, I did a lot. 5th grade, I hit someone over the head with a chair. 6th grade, someone next to me was verbally teasing me, quietly, right in class. I hauled off and socked him right in the face. The teacher didnt see it, her back was turned to the chalkboard, but just about everyone else did. He started to cry and also I started to cry because I had just signed a behavior contract stating I would be suspended for a week. Nothing came of it though. He and some of his friends tried to confront me after school but none of them actually did anything. 8th grade, I stabbed a bully in the arm with a bundle of sharpened pencils and he punched me in the nose. We both were suspended but it was unclear to the principal whether the punch or the stabbing occured first. (actually the teasing and threats of violence preceded the stabbing). Of course neither of us cleared it up. I was very short right up until 10th grade so I looked like an easy target. I got in 2 more fights in high school, won one and lost one. The one I won was with another outcast so there were no repurcussions. I did it front of a crowd too and that was at the beginning of 9th grade so that could have also done a lot to stave off further attacks. It was actually the subject of a quite a bit of teasing and joking on his part because when he was all in my face, I told him his shoelaces were untied and the moron looked down before I decked him. He couldnt go anywhere throughout school without hearing "Hey your shoelaces are untied" Even though I lost most of the time, I guess I was seen as too much of a risk to mess with because I was likely to react violently. So I was ignored, and isolated. I moved to a different school in a different city in 11th grade. I also grew several inches that summer so I was no longer the 2nd or 3rd shortest person at school, I was taller than most of the 9th graders. For the first month or so lunch was spent alone. This school had a sizeable neo-hippie contingent and one day I wore a Grateful Dead T Shirt to school so I was pretty much adopted by that community and didnt have any problems as far as fights and friends were concerned. It was the first time I had a real social life at school as previously it was only 1 or 2 other outcasts. Even though I only lived there a year, my dad lived down there so I would visit him almost every weekend and still have friends to hang out with down there for several years thereafter and even a girlfriend out of that social circle. Unfortunately they all turned into drug addicts and when I no longer had the girlfriend, there was really no reason to hang out with them further. There, for the first time in 6 years here I gave you all a bit of my high school story.

Response:

I feel for you. I was never bullied in HS. Sometimes, I was a target and people ganged up to poke fun at me, mostly based on something stupid I said or did (I had a big mouth). It wasn’t fun at the moment, but I never feared certain people or school. I wasn’t any more of a subject of ridicule than most anyone else, even the high school quarterback was made fun of the same way. I do wonder what people said about me behind my back. I mean, why didn’t anyone invite me to do anything fun with them? I know the types of things that people said about the other guys that no one invited to hang out; was I also held in that low regard? I don’t know. KC

Response:

Thanks for that post Mr Wigglesworth, it touched me a lot. I think the biggest misunderstanding about youth these days is that people just don’t know how profound the experiences are in shaping a person’s life. The adolescent is experiencing a major formation of identity and self-concept. It’s ridiculous to assume that the HS student has ADULT level coping skills and strategies to deal with stressful situations, yet this is exactly what many parents and teachers do assume. In my experience, I can’t count the number of times that authority figures responded with pat answers to traumatic experiences in my early HS years. For example: "You’re adults now, so you can sort this problem out on your own." Uh, no. "Just don’t put up with that kind of stuff." Right. "Ignore that guy, then the behavior won’t be reinforced." If only it were that simple. Fortunately, such attitudes are changing as there is now more awareness about the effects of bullying on self-esteem. My studies of educational research show that it seems to be going beyond the whole behavioralist approach, and looking more into the ‘whole nature’ of the person. In that light, the bullying phenomenon is being taken more seriously than it used to. Still, there is no denying the brutality and savagery of bullies and their behavior. I saw a video in class the other day about lions and hyenas. In the film, hyenas would circle around a pack lions, isolate the female, then visciously attack the ‘adolescent’ cubs. The male leader would be absent in such cases, as those lions have the drive to kill – hence hyenas fear them. Hyenas take a more cowardly or sneaky form of attack (hence their laughing), while lions go for the direct kills. As I watched that video, I couldn’t help but think that bullies aren’t much different, whether they choose a hyena or lion-like style of attack. Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Steve wrote: > Thanks for that post Mr Wigglesworth, it touched me a lot. I think the > biggest misunderstanding about youth these days is that people just > don’t know how profound the experiences are in shaping a person’s life. > The adolescent is experiencing a major formation of identity and > self-concept. It’s ridiculous to assume that the HS student has ADULT > level coping skills and strategies to deal with stressful situations, > yet this is exactly what many parents and teachers do assume. > In my experience, I can’t count the number of times that authority > figures responded with pat answers to traumatic experiences in my early > HS years. For example: > "You’re adults now, so you can sort this problem out on your own." > Uh, no. > "Just don’t put up with that kind of stuff." > Right. > "Ignore that guy, then the behavior won’t be reinforced." > If only it were that simple. > Fortunately, such attitudes are changing as there is now more awareness > about the effects of bullying on self-esteem. My studies of > educational research show that it seems to be going beyond the whole > behavioralist approach, and looking more into the ‘whole nature’ of the > person. In that light, the bullying phenomenon is being taken more > seriously than it used to. > Still, there is no denying the brutality and savagery of bullies and > their behavior. I saw a video in class the other day about lions and > hyenas. In the film, hyenas would circle around a pack lions, isolate > the female, then visciously attack the ‘adolescent’ cubs. The male > leader would be absent in such cases, as those lions have the drive to > kill – hence hyenas fear them. Hyenas take a more cowardly or sneaky > form of attack (hence their laughing), while lions go for the direct > kills. > As I watched that video, I couldn’t help but think that bullies aren’t > much different, whether they choose a hyena or lion-like style of > attack. > Steve

People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses that they can’t be bullied. KC

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -KC Carter wrote: > Steve wrote: > > Thanks for that post Mr Wigglesworth, it touched me a lot. I think > the > > biggest misunderstanding about youth these days is that people just > > don’t know how profound the experiences are in shaping a person’s > life. > > The adolescent is experiencing a major formation of identity and > > self-concept. It’s ridiculous to assume that the HS student has > ADULT > > level coping skills and strategies to deal with stressful situations, > > yet this is exactly what many parents and teachers do assume. > > In my experience, I can’t count the number of times that authority > > figures responded with pat answers to traumatic experiences in my > early > > HS years. For example: > > "You’re adults now, so you can sort this problem out on your own." > > Uh, no. > > "Just don’t put up with that kind of stuff." > > Right. > > "Ignore that guy, then the behavior won’t be reinforced." > > If only it were that simple. > > Fortunately, such attitudes are changing as there is now more > awareness > > about the effects of bullying on self-esteem. My studies of > > educational research show that it seems to be going beyond the whole > > behavioralist approach, and looking more into the ‘whole nature’ of > the > > person. In that light, the bullying phenomenon is being taken more > > seriously than it used to. > > Still, there is no denying the brutality and savagery of bullies and > > their behavior. I saw a video in class the other day about lions and > > hyenas. In the film, hyenas would circle around a pack lions, > isolate > > the female, then visciously attack the ‘adolescent’ cubs. The male > > leader would be absent in such cases, as those lions have the drive > to > > kill – hence hyenas fear them. Hyenas take a more cowardly or sneaky > > form of attack (hence their laughing), while lions go for the direct > > kills. > > As I watched that video, I couldn’t help but think that bullies > aren’t > > much different, whether they choose a hyena or lion-like style of > > attack. > > Steve > People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses that > they can’t be bullied.

Nonsense. I consistently ignored bullies in high school, yet they continued to bully me. Perhaps *some* bullies lose interest when the victim fails to react, but some just continue to get off on the sadistic thrill of tormenting another human being.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hardpan wrote: > On 24 Feb 2005 23:43:41 -0800, "Gray Loser" <gray_lo…@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >KC Carter wrote: > >> Steve wrote: > >> People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses > >that > >> they can’t be bullied. > >Nonsense. I consistently ignored bullies in high school, yet they > >continued to bully me. Perhaps *some* bullies lose interest when the > >victim fails to react, but some just continue to get off on the > >sadistic thrill of tormenting another human being. > You are correct. > There are some sick fucks out there in the world, to be sure.

Especially teens. At some point, though, it becomes impractical to bully other adults. So they graduate to taking it out on their wife, kids, employees, etc. > Did you ever take any revenge out on these creeps?

Only in my fantasies. At 15-16 (when most bullying occurred) I really didn’t know the first thing about assertiveness.

Response:

Hi there, I thought I’d share some of my experiences from high school. Does anyone have any similar tales to tell? Back in high school I was a nerd. I still am, but back then I fitted the stereotype a little better. Skinny, acne, braces, studious etc. The guys would call me all sorts of names (I got beat up a few times, but thankfully I wasn’t subjected to daily beatings) and the girls favourite trick was to flirt with me and then laugh at me and call me a nerd. I remember the girls being a lot crueler, simply because the abuse from the guy’s was pretty direct and straightforward. They would call me a names or whatever. I could deal with that. The girls would constantly tease, trick and lie to me. I don’t know why. It’s not like I would creep girls out by stalking them or anything. I pretty ignored the female gender altogether. I remember this time a girl came up to me and asked me out on a date. At first I was skeptical, but she wasn’t one of the regular group who used to pick on me, so I accepted. We arranged to meet at a bus stop near a local movie theatre. I dressed up in my coolest clothes and waited. Twenty minutes after the scheduled time a car peals around the corner. I recognise it as belonging to one of the guys from school. I make out the face of the girl I was supposed to meet, along with several of the guys and girls who used to pick on me. As they passed me they threw a bunch of garbage at me, sprayed me with water and called me a bunch of names. I stood there in shock, dripping and covered in fast food wrappers. It was a Saturday afternoon and there were a lot of teenagers about. They all laughed at me. Nobody stopped to help, or asked me if I was okay. Had I eerie psychic powers, I would have gone Carrie on their asses. I tried to maintain some dignity as I brushed myself off and started to walk home, but as soon as I rounded the corner I just started to run. Tears were streaming from my eyes. When I got home I locked myself in my room and just lay there for hours. Thankfully I hadn’t told anyone about the "date" (I was a little suspicious to begin with) and that group kept their little prank to themselves. It was a little private joke they had, though they would continue to tease me about it. In fact, we did this little exercise where everyone had to write something good about everyone else and put it in that person’s envelope (Catholic school, heh). That girl wrote something about me being a really good date. God, what a bitch. If that small group had realised how profoundly their actions had affected me I wonder how they’d feel. For the next few years I couldn’t even imagine having a girlfriend. Females had dissappeared from my radar. I got a few advances, but I ignored them because I was certain it was another elaborate prank. If someone asked me if I had a girlfriend I’d laugh and say "Yeah, right!" as if it was the most ludicrous thing I’d ever heard. Essentially I drifted right through my teenage years and early twenties without forming a relationship. I’d partially gotten over my fear of women… I had plenty of female friends, probably too many. Too afraid to approach women romantically, though. Cold approaches? Forget it, I couldn’t even make eye contact. And by the time I got over things it was no longer socially acceptable to be a clueless idiot with relationships. Mr Wigglesworth

Response:

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