Talking Acne

OT My take on holiday family gatherings

admin — Sat, 15 Apr 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I can relate to anyone who hates huge family gatherings.. For over 25 years I have been going to these family gatherings that I DESPISE. I am not exaggerating. My family isn’t so bad for me, and my husband enjoys them. His family is another story. It’s his mother’s side and they are extremely clannish, if anyone knows what I mean. They drive me up the wall with the most idiotic things. If someone has gained weight, everyone comments on it, and it’s usually someone married into the family, who is always embarrassed out of their mind. They comment on how much a person eats. If one of the teens has a bit of acne everyone, and I mean all of them, asks why the kid doesn’t wash his/her face. It’s awful. I dread it so much it is the only time my husband and I have disagreements. I get a severe stress headache. I say "I just cannot go" and he feels I should do it for him. I know it doesn’t look good to everyone if he goes and I don’t and I usually just suck it up and get through it, possibly snapping at people who make rude remarks. A cousin looked at my husband once and said loudly "My God! You are losing your hair!" and he wanted so badly to say "My God, you have gained about 50 lbs." but he didn’t. I normally have something here and invite my mother, sisters and their families and just my in-laws, none of my MIL’s sisters, brother, nieces, nephews, etc. I have not done that this year because I have had so much going on with med changes and life situations. I know my feelings will not change at this point, most likely. I have hated it from day one and still do to this day. There are things these people talk about at the dinner table that I cannot repeat here. They are not trashy people, either. Most are upper middle class or even higher, but they just don’t have an off button in their brains to prevent them from saying offensive things. LOL Anyway, there has been no mention of tomorrow from anyone to me but I am sure in the morning my MIL will call and want us to come over there for lunch. I can hear her now "I have baked a ham, etc. Y’all come on and eat." That may not be so bad but it’s not my favorite of things to do. Plus my husband’s brother and his wife should be there and they are always my salvation because they feel the same way we do. I may be the oddball, probably am, but I was raised to be polite and not comment on things about people, especially things they cannot help like weight gain and acne. I have just always found it extremely offensive. I actually do love these people but in small doses! Happy Easter everyone and hope everyone gets through the inevitable family gatherings. :) :Love, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I can relate to anyone who hates huge family gatherings.. For over 25 years I have been going to these family gatherings that I DESPISE. I am not exaggerating. My family isn’t so bad for me, and my husband enjoys them. His family is another story. It’s his mother’s side and they are extremely clannish, if anyone knows what I mean. They drive me up the wall with the most idiotic things. If someone has gained weight, everyone comments on it, and it’s usually someone married into the family, who is always embarrassed out of their mind. They comment on how much a person eats. If one of the teens has a bit of acne everyone, and I mean all of them, asks why the kid doesn’t wash his/her face. It’s awful. I dread it so much it is the only time my husband and I have disagreements. I get a severe stress headache. I say "I just cannot go" and he feels I should do it for him. I know it doesn’t look good to everyone if he goes and I don’t and I usually just suck it up and get through it, possibly snapping at people who make rude remarks. A cousin looked at my husband once and said loudly "My God! You are losing your hair!" and he wanted so badly to say "My God, you have gained about 50 lbs." but he didn’t. I normally have something here and invite my mother, sisters and their families and just my in-laws, none of my MIL’s sisters, brother, nieces, nephews, etc. I have not done that this year because I have had so much going on with med changes and life situations. I know my feelings will not change at this point, most likely. I have hated it from day one and still do to this day. There are things these people talk about at the dinner table that I cannot repeat here. They are not trashy people, either. Most are upper middle class or even higher, but they just don’t have an off button in their brains to prevent them from saying offensive things. LOL Anyway, there has been no mention of tomorrow from anyone to me but I am sure in the morning my MIL will call and want us to come over there for lunch. I can hear her now "I have baked a ham, etc. Y’all come on and eat." That may not be so bad but it’s not my favorite of things to do. Plus my husband’s brother and his wife should be there and they are always my salvation because they feel the same way we do. I may be the oddball, probably am, but I was raised to be polite and not comment on things about people, especially things they cannot help like weight gain and acne. I have just always found it extremely offensive. I actually do love these people but in small doses! Happy Easter everyone and hope everyone gets through the inevitable family gatherings. :) :Love, Vicki

Hi Vicki, I’m so sorry you have to deal with people like that! Email me if you want and we can rant to each other about our in-laws. Mine are…unbearable too. I’m so glad I don’t do Easter anymore! ((((((((((((((Vicki))))))))))))))) Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can relate to anyone who hates huge family gatherings.. For over 25 years I have been going to these family gatherings that I DESPISE. I am not exaggerating. My family isn’t so bad for me, and my husband enjoys them. His family is another story. It’s his mother’s side and they are extremely clannish, if anyone knows what I mean. They drive me up the wall with the most idiotic things. If someone has gained weight, everyone comments on it, and it’s usually someone married into the family, who is always embarrassed out of their mind. They comment on how much a person eats. If one of the teens has a bit of acne everyone, and I mean all of them, asks why the kid doesn’t wash his/her face. It’s awful. I dread it so much it is the only time my husband and I have disagreements. I get a severe stress headache. I say "I just cannot go" and he feels I should do it for him. I know it doesn’t look good to everyone if he goes and I don’t and I usually just suck it up and get through it, possibly snapping at people who make rude remarks. A cousin looked at my husband once and said loudly "My God! You are losing your hair!" and he wanted so badly to say "My God, you have gained about 50 lbs." but he didn’t. I normally have something here and invite my mother, sisters and their families and just my in-laws, none of my MIL’s sisters, brother, nieces, nephews, etc. I have not done that this year because I have had so much going on with med changes and life situations. I know my feelings will not change at this point, most likely. I have hated it from day one and still do to this day. There are things these people talk about at the dinner table that I cannot repeat here. They are not trashy people, either. Most are upper middle class or even higher, but they just don’t have an off button in their brains to prevent them from saying offensive things. LOL Anyway, there has been no mention of tomorrow from anyone to me but I am sure in the morning my MIL will call and want us to come over there for lunch. I can hear her now "I have baked a ham, etc. Y’all come on and eat." That may not be so bad but it’s not my favorite of things to do. Plus my husband’s brother and his wife should be there and they are always my salvation because they feel the same way we do. I may be the oddball, probably am, but I was raised to be polite and not comment on things about people, especially things they cannot help like weight gain and acne. I have just always found it extremely offensive. I actually do love these people but in small doses! Happy Easter everyone and hope everyone gets through the inevitable family gatherings. :) :Love, Vicki Hi Vicki, I’m so sorry you have to deal with people like that! Email me if you want and we can rant to each other about our in-laws. Mine are…unbearable too. I’m so glad I don’t do Easter anymore! ((((((((((((((Vicki))))))))))))))) Love, Dawn

Yesterday just tired me out. I have a very hard time with a lot of people in a small place (my house) for a long time. I handled it well but I am mentally drained right now. It is a very good thing that my wife takes care of everything or it just wouldn’t get done. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I will second that! Without my wife, I would be even more of a mess : ) Jim — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

ROACCUTANE

admin — Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

There are claims that an anti acne drug called roaccutane can trigger schizophrenia, I used to take that drug, has anyone else here? because if its proved then we will be entitled to thousands if not millions in compensation.

Response:

J.D.M wrote: > There are claims that an anti acne drug called roaccutane can trigger > schizophrenia, I used to take that drug, has anyone else here? because if > its proved then we will be entitled to thousands if not millions in > compensation.

I’m not sure if Roaccutane and Roche Labs’ Accutane are the same drug, but if they are I took it…. one time. I got so fuckin’ sick, vomit, diarreah, visual and auditory hallucinations. I started seeing everything in bright red. I was so dizzy I couldn’t stand up. I called 911, but it was from a cell phone and they couldn’t locate my apartment. I was sick for an entire week. Keep in mind I took it ONE TIME. I wasn’t stupid enough to take it again. I quit seeing that doctor after that. Did you also know that teenager that crashed his small plane into a building to commit suicide took accutane? I never take drugs made by Roche Labs. (They also manufacture Rohipnol. (roofies)) Accutane is an awful drug. I would suggest never taking it. It’s not worth the side effects. -slunky

Response:

I think roaccutane was the beginning of the down hill journey for me, I do believe a lot of the stuff i went through was real, but roaccutane could have had a triggering affect on me. "Slunky" wrote in message

news:1128472128.e1ea615a549ff887075a54784721801a@teranews… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> J.D.M wrote: >> There are claims that an anti acne drug called roaccutane can trigger >> schizophrenia, I used to take that drug, has anyone else here? because if >> its proved then we will be entitled to thousands if not millions in >> compensation. > I’m not sure if Roaccutane and Roche Labs’ Accutane are the same drug, but > if they are I took it…. one time. I got so fuckin’ sick, vomit, > diarreah, visual and auditory hallucinations. I started seeing everything > in bright red. I was so dizzy I couldn’t stand up. I called 911, but it > was from a cell phone and they couldn’t locate my apartment. I was sick > for an entire week. Keep in mind I took it ONE TIME. I wasn’t stupid > enough to take it again. I quit seeing that doctor after that. > Did you also know that teenager that crashed his small plane into a > building to commit suicide took accutane? I never take drugs made by Roche > Labs. (They also manufacture Rohipnol. (roofies)) Accutane is an awful > drug. I would suggest never taking it. It’s not worth the side effects. > -slunky

Response:

J.D.M wrote: > I think roaccutane was the beginning of the down hill journey for me, I do > believe a lot of the stuff i went through was real, but roaccutane could > have had a triggering affect on me.

I wouldn’t doubt it in the least. How long did you take it for? Considering I only took it once, I don’t think it had a chance to affect me permenantly. All my youthful illicit drug use is what brought my schizophrenia into the open. -slunky

Response:

hard as a rock, shut like a lock

admin — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

-pantera a neighbor of mine was commenting on the movie 8 mile. she said it was hard for her to watch because the character was so hardened. she said it once and i ignored my paranoid thinking telling me it was a hidden insult. she said it a few more times, almost as if she had not gotten the / a response from me that she wanted. I didn’t get insulted, i moved forward with the conversation. Do you think i care if you think i’m too hard? too hard for you, who the hell are you to come to my room and tell me that i am too hard for you?

Response:

peacepipe Maybe she wasn’t referring to you at all. Maybe she was just referring to the character. I have the same problem of thinking tv shows, people, etc are referring to me. penguin

Response:

My problem with most TV shows is that they remind me of something unpleasant that was or still is in my life I start thinking that the same thing there could happen to me. I believe that’s a type of paranoia too because TV is mostly designed to help people relax and escape. "Penguin A" wrote in message

news:24875-42CDB5EC-178@storefull-3174.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> peacepipe > Maybe she wasn’t referring to you at all. Maybe she was just referring > to the character. > I have the same problem of thinking tv shows, people, etc are referring > to me. > penguin

Response:

yeah i know. I just can’t imagine people not saying this about me to me. It’s like they’re talking behind my back to my face or something. I know it’s paranoid but I think it’s also true a lot of the times. I think these little battles are also a healthy part of human relationships, I do not see the purpose for them though.

Response:

Penguin, Take a look at this site. http://www.thebeatleswebsite.com/songs.html Just Me "Penguin A" wrote in message

Response:

i don’t think tv is designed to relax you, i think it is actually designed to make you anxious! you are ugly, you are fat, you have acne so buy this. escalators will kill you, there’s asbestos in your home, your children could be dying from radon poisoning so watch this. I think it’s paranoid to not get a little wierded out while watching tv

Response:

hi Just me Thanks for mentioning the Beatles site. I love Beatles trivia. I used to have a book of Beatles facts but I don’t know what happened to it. penguin

Response:

Very near the end

admin — Mon, 06 Jun 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hello, I did my penultimate injection on Friday night (23 of 24). At the same time I counted through my remaining ribavirin tablets, discovered that I have 50 odd too many and chucked them down the toilet which felt really good. Treatment has thus far given me precious little by way of physical side effects, my skin has been a bit dry and I have had a bad acne flare up on my back but otherwise it has been pretty easy going. I am still weight training 3 times a week and swim everyday. I get breathless with short bursts of exertion but once I get warmed up I can exercise without problems. My ALT is still cause for minor concern as it is consistently around the 100 mark. I had a retest recently and I am beginnging to believe that my raised ALT is exercise related. I had an ALT test the day after a hard weight training session, I had swum that morning too and the ALT was 125. One week later I was retested, this time I had been 4 days off from weight training though again had swum that morning and my ALT was 99. Still elevated but I can see a potential link. 12 days and couting. Jonathan

Response:

I’m about 6 or 7 weeks away from the end of treatment. All along I’ve had elevated liver functions, with a lot of fluctuation. Finally, last month they went down to around 45, but this month, they’re back up to 65. A big improvement from 500 to 600 at the start of treatment, and routinely around 200 to 400 throughout the treatment. I haven’t been able to exercise at all for the last 9 months. My protocol supervisor keeps telling me not to worry about it, many organs, including the muscles release these markers. Nevertheless, I tested virus clear at 12 weeks and again at 24. Age 62, genotype 1. Charles My "Rasputin" wrote in message

news:d80v7e$8k4$1@cpca14.uea.ac.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I did my penultimate injection on Friday night (23 of 24). At the same > time I counted through my remaining ribavirin tablets, discovered that I > have 50 odd too many and chucked them down the toilet which felt really > good. > Treatment has thus far given me precious little by way of physical side > effects, my skin has been a bit dry and I have had a bad acne flare up on > my back but otherwise it has been pretty easy going. I am still weight > training 3 times a week and swim everyday. I get breathless with short > bursts of exertion but once I get warmed up I can exercise without > problems. > My ALT is still cause for minor concern as it is consistently around the > 100 mark. I had a retest recently and I am beginnging to believe that my > raised ALT is exercise related. I had an ALT test the day after a hard > weight training session, I had swum that morning too and the ALT was 125. > One week later I was retested, this time I had been 4 days off from weight > training though again had swum that morning and my ALT was 99. Still > elevated but I can see a potential link. > 12 days and couting. > Jonathan

Response:

"Rasputin" wrote in message

news:d80v7e$8k4$1@cpca14.uea.ac.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I did my penultimate injection on Friday night (23 of 24). At the same time > I counted through my remaining ribavirin tablets, discovered that I have 50 > odd too many and chucked them down the toilet which felt really good. > Treatment has thus far given me precious little by way of physical side > effects, my skin has been a bit dry and I have had a bad acne flare up on my > back but otherwise it has been pretty easy going. I am still weight > training 3 times a week and swim everyday. I get breathless with short > bursts of exertion but once I get warmed up I can exercise without problems. > My ALT is still cause for minor concern as it is consistently around the 100 > mark. I had a retest recently and I am beginnging to believe that my raised > ALT is exercise related. I had an ALT test the day after a hard weight > training session, I had swum that morning too and the ALT was 125. One week > later I was retested, this time I had been 4 days off from weight training > though again had swum that morning and my ALT was 99. Still elevated but I > can see a potential link.

Congratulations on approaching the end of tx! You should NEVER chuck meds down the toilet! These things affect the water supply and do not get filtered out!!! There have been many studies done on this that have shown things like hormones from birth control pills and psychiatric drugs remaining in the water after it goes through the water treatment plant–and mostly this is just what comes out in the urine–never mind people flushing drugs down the toilet. Here in France, any unused drugs go back to the pharmacy where they are either destroyed in an ecological manner or sent to Africa to be distributed to people who NEED them. Lana

Response:

Diane 35: warning–dangerous drug

admin — Sun, 20 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 07:22:11 GMT, kathryn wrote:

[ re: Diane 35] >I think this story is a few years old.

April 10,2003 http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpfb-dgpsa/tpd-dpt/diane-35_pa_e.html >Public Advisory – Diane

Ass Pole…. Would you go back to high school?

admin — Thu, 10 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Dead Guy wrote: > Life is much more enjoyable and relaxing now. A change of environment > has done wonders to alleviate my overall anxiety and depression.

I agree with this! Environment can be a huge factor! I haven’t had a lot of experience with different environments until the past year or so. I left the ex and that was a huge change for the better. Much less stress being away from all that mess. The other factor is some of my family members and their constant problems and drama. Stressful environment. My daughter coming to live with me off and on and then my mother living with me for a short time. The ex calling up drunk and harassing me. So I had never really had the chance to be away from that stress. I got a whole month without the majority of that enviromental stress and sure being with teh bf helped but it wasn’t just him eitehr. It was being so far away that I couldn’t and didn’t have to deal with their shit although they tried a few times to drag me into it! Now I am back here and I am having stress related headaches, anger, and depression sometimes. So I am planning to move away from here. Either Australia or Florida. Sometimes you just gotta make a clean break to save your sanity. — ———————————————————————— Ms Pnoopie Pnats Usnet Legend http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ ———————————————————————— —————- Pnats says: It will be a friendly reunion! Vic says: Velly friendly!!! ———————————————————————— —————

Response:

Ms Pnoopie Pnats wrote: > stry…@hotmail.com wrote: > > If you were able to go back would you? I think I would. I would be > > more fun and outgoing. I had a good life in high school but I guess I > > could have been a little more talkative and less "uptight". > > I would have dated around more instead of dating the girl I did off > > and on for 5 years that eventually cheated on me. (More than once.) > I don’t know. I don’t much like being told what to do all the time and > the teachers are always so disrespectful.

Exactly. After a few months of college, I thought, "How was it that I put up with all that crap?" We don’t realize at the time that we don’t have to. KC

Response:

Definitely not. I go to a commuter college, which is very similar to high school IMHO. I’m still too shy to speak to my classmates so if I magically go back to high school I’m sure I’d make the same mistakes I did the first time around. -rainier

Response:

August wrote: > The scary thing is that, other than perhaps > redoing a specific > incident or two and other than being > more "unmutual", I would probably > not know how to do it better.

There was a nerdy guy at my high school, Frasier to my Niles, whom I used to hang out with at school. We were both too shy to do stuff OUTSIDE school. For instance, I never invited him over to my house. I reconnected with him via Classmates.com and we went on a double date last week. Unusual since neither of us dated in high school! Anyways, we are friends again and plan on fishing and golfing together this spring. I was 5′4, 100 pounds and had terrible acne in high school. So even if I were more extroverted, I wouldn’t have scored hot tail. Not with a body and face that appeared ravaged by Dachau. -rainier

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rainier wrote: > August wrote: >>The scary thing is that, other than perhaps > redoing a specific >>incident or two and other than being > more "unmutual", I would > probably >>not know how to do it better. > There was a nerdy guy at my high school, Frasier to my Niles, whom I used > to hang out with at school. We were both too shy to do stuff OUTSIDE > school. For instance, I never invited him over to my house. > I reconnected with him via Classmates.com and we went on a double date > last week. Unusual since neither of us dated in high school! Anyways, we > are friends again and plan on fishing and golfing together this spring.

Good deal! See if you can keep that going. > I was 5′4, 100 pounds and had terrible acne in high school. So even if I > were more extroverted, I wouldn’t have scored hot tail. Not with a body > and face that appeared ravaged by Dachau. > -rainier

August Pamplona — The waterfall in Java is not wet. – omegazero2003 on m.f.w. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.

Response:

Rainier wrote: > Definitely not. I go to a commuter college, which is very similar to high > school IMHO. I’m still too shy to speak to my classmates so if I magically > go back to high school I’m sure I’d make the same mistakes I did the first > time around. > -rainier

I could chastise you for your negativity here but, as it turns out, I wrote something very similar on this same thread . August Pamplona — The waterfall in Java is not wet. – omegazero2003 on m.f.w. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.

Response:

mos…@katamail.com wrote: > it sounds incredible stupid, but I never had > the nerve to call them

on the phone Why don’t you try classmates.com? Maybe you can hook up w/ your quasi-friends like I did.

Response:

August wrote: > Good deal! See if you can keep that going.

My gf is out of town next weekend so he invited me to tag along on a date with him and his gf. Normally I have too much pride to be a tagalong but I hate spending weekends alone so I accepted his offer. -rainier

Response:

helen wrote: > w/ a bomb…

My sentiments exactly. (Whoah. I can’t believe I just agreed with helen.)

Response:

stry…@hotmail.com wrote: > If you were able to go back would you? I think I would. I would be more > fun and outgoing. I had a good life in high school but I guess I could > have been a little more talkative and less "uptight". > I would have dated around more instead of dating the girl I did off and > on for 5 years that eventually cheated on me. (More than once.)

Nah. To many gangs in my school. Outgoing people in my high school were often targeted unless they had the right kinda of friends. So it wouldn’t of been a good place to try and come out of my shell.

Response:

wrote in message

I’d love to do it all over without shyness. > I would have dated around more instead of dating the girl I did off and > on for 5 years that eventually cheated on me. (More than once.)

Troll……;-)

Response:

stry…@hotmail.com wrote: > If you were able to go back would you? I think I would. I would be > more fun and outgoing. I had a good life in high school but I guess I > could have been a little more talkative and less "uptight". > I would have dated around more instead of dating the girl I did off > and on for 5 years that eventually cheated on me. (More than once.)

I don’t know. I don’t much like being told what to do all the time and the teachers are always so disrespectful. So in a fantasy situation where I had to, I would go back with the knowledg I have now. I would torment those who tormented me. I would do some crazy fun things. I would actually go to a dance and the prom. — ———————————————————————— Ms Pnoopie Pnats Usnet Legend http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ ———————————————————————— —————- I never knew zee grocery could be so much fun! ———————————————————————— —————

Response:

On 10 Mar 2005 06:54:17 -0800, stry…@hotmail.com sayeth: > If you were able to go back would you? I think I would. I would be more > fun and outgoing. I had a good life in high school but I guess I could > have been a little more talkative and less "uptight". > I would have dated around more instead of dating the girl I did off and > on for 5 years that eventually cheated on me. (More than once.)

Response:

The scary thing is that, other than perhaps redoing a specific incident or two and other than being more "unmutual", I would probably not know how to do it better. August Pamplona — The waterfall in Java is not wet. – omegazero2003 on m.f.w. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -August Pamplona wrote: > stry…@hotmail.com wrote: >> If you were able to go back would you? I think I would. I would be more >> fun and outgoing. I had a good life in high school but I guess I could >> have been a little more talkative and less "uptight". >> I would have dated around more instead of dating the girl I did off and >> on for 5 years that eventually cheated on me. (More than once.) > The scary thing is that, other than perhaps redoing a specific > incident or two and other than being more "unmutual", I would probably > not know how to do it better. > August Pamplona

An the reason I refer to this as "the scary thing" is because, rather that trying to imply that I did so well as to almost be optimal (and thus "hard to beat"), I’m trying to imply that I’m not sure that I know better even now. August Pamplona * Again, excepting perhaaps isolated incidents and the idea of being more "unmutual"**. ** The word is a reference from the 60’s series, _The Prisoner_ . — The waterfall in Java is not wet. – omegazero2003 on m.f.w. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.

Response:

Absolutely not. Those were the worst years of my life, and there is probably little to nothing I could have done to changed that. There was rarely a night that I went to sleep without secretly wishing that I wouldn’t wake up the next day. Life is much more enjoyable and relaxing now. A change of environment has done wonders to alleviate my overall anxiety and depression.

Response:

"RonW" wrote in message

news:858ebac42685914c1defc4a043b5a88f@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com… > There are times I would like to go back with the ‘me’ mentality that I have > today.

I feel the opposite. Sometimes I would like to have today the mentality that I had in high school. I used to be much more brave about saying what was on my mind, even if I did end up complaining or making sarcastic comments all the time. I wasn’t afraid of confusing or shocking people, or being seen as rude or stuck up. I wonder if giving up my vehement misanthropy was the biggest mistake of my life.

Response:

If you were able to go back would you? I think I would. I would be more fun and outgoing. I had a good life in high school but I guess I could have been a little more talkative and less "uptight". I would have dated around more instead of dating the girl I did off and on for 5 years that eventually cheated on me. (More than once.)

Response:

w/ a bomb… unless i looked this good then. [no, not even] h

Response:

If I could do everything differently, yes. For the same thing I went through, not on your life. If I could date (differently? I didn’t date at all), then I would ask a girl out as soon as I had any interest in her and eitheer go on the date or move on. Everybody with a successful dating life asks out lots of women.

Response:

>If you were able to go back would you?

Hell yes. I would’ve dumped my fool of a boyfriend and started going out with a guy who was actually interested in hetero sex.

Response:

wrote in message

news:1110466457.203500.296420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… > If you were able to go back would you? I think I would. I would be more > fun and outgoing. I had a good life in high school but I guess I could > have been a little more talkative and less "uptight". > I would have dated around more instead of dating the girl I did off and > on for 5 years that eventually cheated on me. (More than once.)

Nope. The assignments in high school were actually harder than the ones I have to do now, and there were more of them. If I was back in high school I’d probably be even more shy than I was the first time, since back then I at least had anger to motivate me to make sarcastic remarks. Now that I’ve gotten out of the habit of complaining IRL, there’s nothing to talk about.

Response:

"stry…@hotmail.com" wrote: > If you were able to go back would you? I think I would. I would be > more fun and outgoing. I had a good life in high school but I guess I > could have been a little more talkative and less "uptight". > I would have dated around more instead of dating the girl I did off > and on for 5 years that eventually cheated on me. (More than once.)

Would you have to go back to having no money as well?

Response:

There are times I would like to go back with the ‘me’ mentality that I have today. There would be alot of things I’d do differently. However, I believe everything in my past was for a reason. I definitly wouldn’t be married to the woman I have nor would I have my son. There are so many interconnecting strands in the web that happened, because this or that happened. This or that happened – because of who I was back then. Change one little thing, and you change the entire future. It is an interesting thought though.

Response:

"Adrian Boliston" wrote in message

news:39bt5eF5rubqeU1@individual.net… > "stry…@hotmail.com" wrote: > > If you were able to go back would you? I think I would. I would be > > more fun and outgoing. I had a good life in high school but I guess I > > could have been a little more talkative and less "uptight". > > I would have dated around more instead of dating the girl I did off > > and on for 5 years that eventually cheated on me. (More than once.) > Would you have to go back to having no money as well?

Hm. There’s a plus to the whole high school thing, I suppose. I had no money then. I have no money now. But at least back then I hadn’t taken out any college loans yet.

Response:

High school experiences

admin — Thu, 24 Feb 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

MrWigglesworth wrote: > Hi there, > I thought I’d share some of my experiences from high school. Does anyone > have any similar tales to tell?

O_o bhp, is that you? > Back in high school I was a nerd. I still am, but back then I fitted the > stereotype a little better. Skinny, acne, braces, studious etc. The guys

Were you quiet too? Were there no other "nerds" or "geeks" in the school to hang with? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> would call me all sorts of names (I got beat up a few times, but thankfully > I wasn’t subjected to daily beatings) and the girls favourite trick was to > flirt with me and then laugh at me and call me a nerd. I remember the > girls being a lot crueler, simply because the abuse from the guy’s was > pretty direct and straightforward. They would call me a names or > whatever. I could deal with that. The girls would constantly tease, > trick and lie to me. I don’t know why. It’s not like I would creep girls > out by stalking them or anything. I pretty ignored the female gender > altogether. > I remember this time a girl came up to me and asked me out on a date. At > first I was skeptical, but she wasn’t one of the regular group who used to > pick on me, so I accepted. We arranged to meet at a bus stop near a local > movie theatre. I dressed up in my coolest clothes and waited. Twenty > minutes after the scheduled time a car peals around the corner. I > recognise it as belonging to one of the guys from school. I make out the > face of the girl I was supposed to meet, along with several of the guys > and girls who used to pick on me. As they passed me they threw a bunch of > garbage at me, sprayed me with water and called me a bunch of names. I > stood there in shock, dripping and covered in fast food wrappers. It was > a Saturday afternoon and there were a lot of teenagers about. They all > laughed at me. Nobody stopped to help, or asked me if I was okay. Had I > eerie psychic powers, I would have gone Carrie on their asses. I tried to > maintain some dignity as I brushed myself off and started to walk home, but > as soon as I rounded the corner I just started to run. Tears were > streaming from my eyes. When I got home I locked myself in my room and > just lay there for hours. > Thankfully I hadn’t told anyone about the "date" (I was a little > suspicious to begin with) and that group kept their little prank to > themselves. It was a little private joke they had, though they would > continue to tease me about it. In fact, we did this little exercise where

You have my sympathy… > everyone had to write something good about everyone else and put it in that > person’s envelope (Catholic school, heh). That girl wrote something about > me being a really good date. God, what a bitch.

So, what did you put in /her/ envelope? "Lying slut, I hope you’re possessed by poltergeists" I hope *evil cackle* — Everybody in the world ought to be sorry for everybody else. We all have our little private hell. — Bettina von Hutten, _The Halo_ (1907) Meet other Shybies in person- http://shyness.meetup.com/

Response:

(sorry for the double post) MrWigglesworth wrote: > Hi there, > I thought I’d share some of my experiences from high school. Does anyone > have any similar tales to tell?

O_o bhp, is that you? > Back in high school I was a nerd. I still am, but back then I fitted the > stereotype a little better. Skinny, acne, braces, studious etc. The guys

You have my sympathy… Anyone remember when someone in class would "borrow" stuff? A pencil, paper, lunch money? If you got something in return, lucky you. I never did. Borrow just meant, hey I think you’re dumb enough to steal from so thanks sucker. > everyone had to write something good about everyone else and put it in that > person’s envelope (Catholic school, heh). That girl wrote something about > me being a really good date. God, what a bitch.

Response:

"Bernd Jendrissek" in news:cvn7rr$iak$3@penguin.wetton.example.org: > They might have considered avoiding them "like the plague" as uncivil!

in HS, some do, saying: "your antisocial! you creep! stalker! " (just for existing quietly) > Just like DF considers their avoidance of him as "uncivil".

an interesting (further) damnation of those girls… :> >>I don’t know if I’d forgive the particular girls that made fun of me, >>but that was a million years ago and I couldn’t care less where they >>are today. > Is there any real difference w.r.t moral culpability between girls who > *actually* made fun of *you in particular*, and girls who *could have* > done so, given more time and/or opportunities?

however those who planned but never did, may also be rare. > I ask because this, to me, is a HUGE part of the idea of morality and > forgiveness.

virtual culpability, and virtual forgiveness? >>Another thing that affected me about the girls "bullying" me is that I >>didn’t know how to react. >>I mean, you can’t take a swing at them.

"here…" as you jam thorny roses into their faces "ooops! … oh, i’m such a clumsy nerd… " ? > Exactly! They know this! That’s part of their advantage of supposedly >"seeing the social matrix" at a younger age than boys do. They’re > testing their new-found powers like spiderman who accidentally crawls up > an office block wall in his business suit just after the spider bit him > (old film). > _The Myth of Male Power_ springs to mind. > (Most) (Western) men have graciously relinquished one source of power – > their greater physical strength. Have women reigned in their behaviour > concomitantly at all? No! Quite the opposite, I think.

but it’s *silicon*! :> … > Maybe you will, and maybe you won’t, but maybe also some young girl is > reading this right now, shortly before an opportunity tempts her to > bully some seemingly weak boy. [Gendered pronouns used only because > they were in the OP - it goes both ways really.] This possibility might > remind her that yes, her actions *do* have consequences. > My only ethical dilemma is if it’s even useful to hold people > accountable for something they may have done decades ago. I’m tending > to think yes, it is useful, but not if they did [whatever] as kids. Few > kids are self-aware enough to be *deciding* to bully someone. OTOH

neutering. end the cruddy lineage ASAP. > Imagine, in 40 years, a little child asking its grandfather, "Grandpa, > why do we live in a dump?" "Because I never got a good job." "Why?" >"Because after I interviewed for those jobs, they googled me and rather > found someone else." "Why?" "(Sob!) Because I made some poor kid’s > life hell when I was young (*) and he named me in a usenet post! > Boohoo! How should I have known he woulda done that??!? Boohoo!!!" > (*) …and didn’t know any better, but that makes no difference to the > bullyee.

– Warning: The Surgeon General has determined that vampires can cause severe anemia. Stay out of belfries.

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 In article <409a12f99d23af3192bb563ff9c7c…@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com> MrWigglesworth wrote: >If that small group had realised how profoundly their actions had >affected me I wonder how they’d feel.

They’d tell you to "take responsibility" and "just get over it". Can you forgive adult women now, who you can easily imagine having humiliated other little boys like yourself in their schools? /me is glad *girls* didn’t bully me much. – — A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet? —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQFCHvdP/FmLrNfLpjMRAuFrAJ0VvmSeWsa6dM+rIcGx/MBzGaU/kQCfRRfY ykDwJcUey8KYjNuhTdQByf8= =gJMi —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

Well I found that bullying advice came in two forms: 1) "Stand up for yourself and they’ll respect you." I did this a few times. I got my ass handed to me. I guess I expected the bully to go down in one punch, like in the movies. I was scrawny and about a foot shorter than most of the guys (I went through puberty pretty late). They kicked my ass and laughed the whole time. 2) "Ignore them and they’ll get bored and go away." This is what I did most of the time and it didn’t really work either. Somehow they interpreted my ignoring them as a sign that they could ruffle me. That or they just escalated things until I had no choice but to react.

Response:

>They’d tell you to "take responsibility" and >"just get over it".

Yeah, probably. I am over it now, but it still affected me more than it should have. >Can you forgive adult women now, who you can >easily imagine having humiliated other little >boys like yourself in their schools?

Haha, of course. What am I forgiving adult women for? Though it seemed like it at the time, it wasn’t ALL women that bullied me… only a handful. Unlike some people (eg Darkfalz) I can make that distinction. Most girls were civil to me, though I avoided them like the plague. Looking back now I think a couple even liked me, even if I was too cynical/stupid to realise it back then. I don’t know if I’d forgive the particular girls that made fun of me, but that was a million years ago and I couldn’t care less where they are today. Another thing that affected me about the girls "bullying" me is that I didn’t know how to react. I mean, you can’t take a swing at them. Yelling at them seemed… ungentlemanly to me. Even if I had I’d probably be pummelled by their rugby playing boyfriends. I couldn’t even tell anyone about it. What was I supposed to say? That I was being bullied by girls? I’d never hear the end of it. This from good Catholic girls… LOL!

Response:

> I thought I’d share some of my experiences from high school. Does anyone > have any similar tales to tell? > Back in high school I was a nerd. I still am, but back then I fitted the > stereotype a little better. Skinny, acne, braces, studious etc.

that was me too! >The guys > would call me all sorts of names (I got beat up a few times, but thankfully > I wasn’t subjected to daily beatings)

I’ve been called something like 30 different names……. and usually was beaten at school almost everyday. My popolarity has always been almost 0, I also feared a lot gyms and sport activity since I considered them as a symbolic place where you don’t count much intellectualy, only phisically. > and the girls favourite trick was to > flirt with me and then laugh at me and call me a nerd. I remember the > girls being a lot crueler, simply because the abuse from the guy’s was > pretty direct and straightforward. They would call me a names or > whatever. I could deal with that. The girls would constantly tease, > trick and lie to me. I don’t know why. It’s not like I would creep girls > out by stalking them or anything. I pretty ignored the female gender > altogether.

Girls can be really cruel, my experience here is a little different: most of my bullies were males, but I have received some minor teasing from girls too… anyway nothing compared to males (who phisically used to beat me up as soon as possible). Anyway I’ve almost never been flirted by girls (and that was a thing I was always looking forward to,but now that I read this it seems like I’ve been lucky… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I remember this time a girl came up to me and asked me out on a date. At > first I was skeptical, but she wasn’t one of the regular group who used to > pick on me, so I accepted. We arranged to meet at a bus stop near a local > movie theatre. I dressed up in my coolest clothes and waited. Twenty > minutes after the scheduled time a car peals around the corner. I > recognise it as belonging to one of the guys from school. I make out the > face of the girl I was supposed to meet, along with several of the guys > and girls who used to pick on me. As they passed me they threw a bunch of > garbage at me, sprayed me with water and called me a bunch of names. I > stood there in shock, dripping and covered in fast food wrappers. It was > a Saturday afternoon and there were a lot of teenagers about. They all > laughed at me. Nobody stopped to help, or asked me if I was okay. Had I > eerie psychic powers, I would have gone Carrie on their asses. I tried to > maintain some dignity as I brushed myself off and started to walk home, but > as soon as I rounded the corner I just started to run. Tears were > streaming from my eyes. When I got home I locked myself in my room and > just lay there for hours. > Thankfully I hadn’t told anyone about the "date" (I was a little > suspicious to begin with) and that group kept their little prank to > themselves. It was a little private joke they had, though they would > continue to tease me about it. In fact, we did this little exercise where > everyone had to write something good about everyone else and put it in that > person’s envelope (Catholic school, heh). That girl wrote something about > me being a really good date. God, what a bitch.

[..cut...] This story really touches me a lot, because I perfectly know how it is like. Now when I look back to that years I see that period as a big "black hole", I can also state that one of the things that REALLY made me feel bad about myself and sad was all that tons of bullying and teasing I have received at high school (and not only…) The bad thing, however, is that it happens to me quite often to remember that days and feeling all that "phantoms" coming back to my head: it’s a very nasty feeling.. I also still fear many of that people, because I’m pretty sure that all that can happen again ( AND I’m REALLLYY!! SURE OF THIS…….) also because besides the fact that some years have passed, I have NEVER learned how to cope with bullies… now my best startegy is STILL that of running away. I also hate a lot people who say "ignore them"… my experience has showed that that doesn’t work, Also the startegy "fight back" is useless: everytime I used to fight them, they found my aggressive behaviour as an excuse to bully and beating me up even more and more… > If that small group had realised how profoundly their actions had affected > me I wonder how they’d feel. For the next few years I couldn’t even > imagine having a girlfriend. Females had dissappeared from my radar. I > got a few advances, but I ignored them because I was certain it was > another elaborate prank. If someone asked me if I had a girlfriend I’d > laugh and say "Yeah, right!" as if it was the most ludicrous thing I’d > ever heard.

I spent most of my teen years trying to "cope" with bullies and I can state that by being constantly teased at school, I never cared much about the girls out there, because I marked all that social environment as "feared zone". I remember at school, I was looking forward for the end to go back home and close myself in my room. > Essentially I drifted right through my teenage years and early twenties > without forming a relationship. I’d partially gotten over my fear of > women… I had plenty of female friends, probably too many. Too afraid to > approach women romantically, though. Cold approaches? Forget it, I > couldn’t even make eye contact. And by the time I got over things it was > no longer socially acceptable to be a clueless idiot with relationships.

Anyway you have made progress and i wish you good luck. I think that the best behaviour for pepole like us would be that of getting rid of our past…

Response:

Hardpan in news:1jqt11lslabvau4hoi2qgv6haf1bkbdtqr@4ax.com: > On 25 Feb 2005 00:22:30 -0800, "Gray Loser" > wrote: >>Hardpan wrote: >>> On 24 Feb 2005 23:43:41 -0800, "Gray Loser" >>> wrote: >>> >KC Carter wrote: >>> >> Steve wrote:

.. .. … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> There are some sick fucks out there in the world, to be sure. >>Especially teens. At some point, though, it becomes impractical to >>bully other adults. So they graduate to taking it out on their wife, >>kids, employees, etc. > Indeed so! > The problem that most of them run into as adults is: > A; They not longer have the buddies around to protect them and give > them confidence. Loners like me, have the advantage after class is out > forever and we have long memories.:-) > B: Jail-time as an adult is a real bitch, what with criminal records, > and all and they quickly realize it when they try to pull the same > crap they did back in high school and get taken down for the count. > Lifes a real bitch sometimes !

unfortunately by the time they’re in prison, it’s for committing even worse offenses than bullying. the criminals really shoudl be stopped sooner. >>> Did you ever take any revenge out on these creeps?

.. > I wasn’t talking about direct confrontation while still in school. > Since bullies in HS are usually well connected with frat/team buddies > and are physically stronger then their prey at the time, that’s next > to impossible to accomplish. > I was thinking more along the lines of indirect revenge by damaging > their reputations and/or their property, something I became quite good > at back in the day.

hmm :> — Warning: The Surgeon General has determined that vampires can cause severe anemia. Stay out of belfries.

Response:

"MrWigglesworth" in news:409a12f99d23af3192bb563ff9c7cda5@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com: .. > Back in high school I was a nerd. I still am, but back then I fitted > the stereotype a little better. Skinny, acne, braces, studious etc. > The guys would call me all sorts of names (I got beat up a few times, > but thankfully I wasn’t subjected to daily beatings) and the girls > favourite trick was to flirt with me and then laugh at me and call me > a nerd. I remember the girls being a lot crueler, simply because the > abuse from the guy’s was pretty direct and straightforward. They > would call me a names or whatever. I could deal with that. The girls > would constantly tease, trick and lie to me. I don’t know why. It’s > not like I would creep girls out by stalking them or anything. I > pretty ignored the female gender altogether. > I remember this time a girl came up to me and asked me out on a date. > At first I was skeptical, but she wasn’t one of the regular group who > used to pick on me, so I accepted.

.. >They all laughed at me. Nobody > stopped to help, or asked me if I was okay. Had I eerie psychic > powers, I would have gone Carrie on their asses.

burn… .. > When I got home I locked myself in my room > and just lay there for hours.

i guess we’re all supposed to get over this, as if it was just an accident… > Thankfully I hadn’t told anyone about the "date" (I was a little > suspicious to begin with) and that group kept their little prank to > themselves. It was a little private joke they had, though they would > continue to tease me about it. In fact, we did this little exercise > where everyone had to write something good about everyone else and put > it in that person’s envelope (Catholic school, heh). That girl wrote > something about me being a really good date. God, what a bitch.

"but gave good head on our date" is what you (wish you) wrote in your note (if you had predicted her note)? :> > If that small group had realised how profoundly their actions had > affected me I wonder how they’d feel.

honestly, i think a few would care if, a few eyars later, they considered the prank… but i suspect some still think it’s funny. >For the next few years I > couldn’t even imagine having a girlfriend. Females had dissappeared > from my radar. I got a few advances, but I ignored them because I was > certain it was another elaborate prank. If someone asked me if I had > a girlfriend I’d laugh and say "Yeah, right!" as if it was the most > ludicrous thing I’d ever heard. > Essentially I drifted right through my teenage years and early > twenties without forming a relationship. I’d partially gotten over my > fear of women… I had plenty of female friends, probably too many.

better than me. but i was never vistim of a conspiracy, as you were. and girls were only once mean to me in HS. they ignored me from elementary on. > Too afraid to approach women romantically, though. Cold approaches? > Forget it, I couldn’t even make eye contact. And by the time I got > over things it was no longer socially acceptable to be a clueless > idiot with relationships.

fake it. About how old are you now? > Mr Wigglesworth

– Warning: The Surgeon General has determined that vampires can cause severe anemia. Stay out of belfries.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 In article <34795dcb744549b31d2bace28eaa1…@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com> MrWigglesworth wrote: >>They’d tell you to "take responsibility" and "just get over it". >Yeah, probably. I am over it now, but it still affected me more than >it should have.

I forgot to add that they’d probably say that houghtily, smugly. They might even add, "the past is the past", which is a favourite thing to say among people who’s stuffed up their lives and now want to "start over". >>Can you forgive adult women now, who you can easily imagine having >>humiliated other little boys like yourself in their schools?

The other difficulty is that being "evil" is more a matter of sufficient time and opportunity, than of any "character flaws". They’re *all* like "that". And all men too, for that matter. Grmhrmmmhmm I’m starting to grind my mental gears on girl vs. boy bullying, the alleged earlier development of social awareness in girls, cruelty vs. opportunism vs. callousness, and a few other things. >Haha, of course. What am I forgiving adult women for?

Is there anything to forgive? It may be like "forgiving" a rock for having stubbed your toe against it. The verb "forgive" seems like an awful presupposition (NLP alert), but I don’t have any clue exactly *what* it presupposes. >Though it seemed like it at the time, it wasn’t ALL women that bullied >me… only a handful. Unlike some people (eg Darkfalz) I can make that >distinction.

He would say that that’s because he’s uglier than you (or I), and it’s a distinct possibility, but I can’t remember clearly enough any specific interactions between a schoolmate who (I think) would make Jim Summers proud for a.s.s-worthiness and the girls in our class. Maybe I was just too self-absorbed to notice much of it, but I do seem to recall (*) more overt bitchiness toward him than to me. BTW as in your Saturday bus stop pseudodate, there were boys involved; it’s possible they were the TRUE EVIL puppet masters and the girl was just going along, maybe seeking his approval. (*) Nice synesthesia (?) – "SEEM to reCALL" >Most girls were civil to me, though I avoided them like the plague.

They might have considered avoiding them "like the plague" as uncivil! Just like DF considers their avoidance of him as "uncivil". >I don’t know if I’d forgive the particular girls that made fun of me, >but that was a million years ago and I couldn’t care less where they >are today.

Is there any real difference w.r.t moral culpability between girls who *actually* made fun of *you in particular*, and girls who *could have* done so, given more time and/or opportunities? I ask because this, to me, is a HUGE part of the idea of morality and forgiveness. >Another thing that affected me about the girls "bullying" me is that I >didn’t know how to react. >I mean, you can’t take a swing at them.

Exactly! They know this! That’s part of their advantage of supposedly "seeing the social matrix" at a younger age than boys do. They’re testing their new-found powers like spiderman who accidentally crawls up an office block wall in his business suit just after the spider bit him (old film). _The Myth of Male Power_ springs to mind. (Most) (Western) men have graciously relinquished one source of power – their greater physical strength. Have women reigned in their behaviour concomitantly at all? No! Quite the opposite, I think. They’ve been "empowering" themselves – adopted many of the worst qualities of men. >I couldn’t even tell anyone about it. What was I supposed to say? >That I was being bullied by girls? I’d never hear the end of it.

One a.s.s icon could be a boy, bound and gagged, surrounded by "public awareness program" posters urging people to "speak out" about their problems. And "empowered" women lining up outside therapists’ offices to the applause of "society" (including the bound and gagged boy). Steve, you have your work cut out for you if you want to help the bound and gagged. >This from good Catholic girls… LOL!

Name and shame them. Right here. Real names and all. Maybe you will, and maybe you won’t, but maybe also some young girl is reading this right now, shortly before an opportunity tempts her to bully some seemingly weak boy. [Gendered pronouns used only because they were in the OP - it goes both ways really.] This possibility might remind her that yes, her actions *do* have consequences. My only ethical dilemma is if it’s even useful to hold people accountable for something they may have done decades ago. I’m tending to think yes, it is useful, but not if they did [whatever] as kids. Few kids are self-aware enough to be *deciding* to bully someone. OTOH their parents seem to need more motivation to raise their children well. Imagine, in 40 years, a little child asking its grandfather, "Grandpa, why do we live in a dump?" "Because I never got a good job." "Why?" "Because after I interviewed for those jobs, they googled me and rather found someone else." "Why?" "(Sob!) Because I made some poor kid’s life hell when I was young (*) and he named me in a usenet post! Boohoo! How should I have known he woulda done that??!? Boohoo!!!" (*) …and didn’t know any better, but that makes no difference to the bullyee. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQFCHzzI/FmLrNfLpjMRArO8AKCGFWtrC7wyiAAuxMD0+RF6adCNQACfRfgI wtLd9bm0YpOjTJHndHT8WGc= =XAy6 —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

"Hardpan" wrote in message

news:mu0v11tfjkgdoosbn2hu35knm4hpnnk7bh@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:17:09 -0500, "The Babaloughesian" > wrote: > >"Gray Loser" wrote in message > >news:1109319750.731103.38520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com… > >> Hardpan wrote: > >> > On 24 Feb 2005 23:43:41 -0800, "Gray Loser" > >> > wrote: > >> > >KC Carter wrote: > >> > >> Steve wrote: > >> > >> People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses > >> > >that > >> > >> they can’t be bullied. > >> > >Nonsense. I consistently ignored bullies in high school, yet they > >> > >continued to bully me. Perhaps *some* bullies lose interest when > >> the > >> > >victim fails to react, but some just continue to get off on the > >> > >sadistic thrill of tormenting another human being. > >> > You are correct. > >> > There are some sick fucks out there in the world, to be sure. > >> Especially teens. At some point, though, it becomes impractical to > >> bully other adults. > >It becomes impractical to bully them physically. That’s when the > >manipulative mind games start. > Can you go into more detail here? > I am assuming that you mean the person being bullied, not the bullies > themselves who are usually low IQ losers incapable of playing mind > games.

Half correct. I am not talking about the specific individuals who are high school bullies. I’m talking about the overall category of sick fucks. People who get off on the thrill of tormenting another human being. A category of which high school bullies are a subset. As the skillset particular to high school bullies becomes impractical to use, different subsets of sick fucks take over.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -KC Carter wrote: > Gray Loser wrote: > > KC Carter wrote: > > > Steve wrote: > > > > Thanks for that post Mr Wigglesworth, it touched me a lot. I > think > > > the > > > > biggest misunderstanding about youth these days is that people > just > > > > don’t know how profound the experiences are in shaping a person’s > > > life. > > > > The adolescent is experiencing a major formation of identity and > > > > self-concept. It’s ridiculous to assume that the HS student has > > > ADULT > > > > level coping skills and strategies to deal with stressful > > situations, > > > > yet this is exactly what many parents and teachers do assume. > > > > In my experience, I can’t count the number of times that > authority > > > > figures responded with pat answers to traumatic experiences in my > > > early > > > > HS years. For example: > > > > "You’re adults now, so you can sort this problem out on your > own." > > > > Uh, no. > > > > "Just don’t put up with that kind of stuff." > > > > Right. > > > > "Ignore that guy, then the behavior won’t be reinforced." > > > > If only it were that simple. > > > > Fortunately, such attitudes are changing as there is now more > > > awareness > > > > about the effects of bullying on self-esteem. My studies of > > > > educational research show that it seems to be going beyond the > > whole > > > > behavioralist approach, and looking more into the ‘whole nature’ > of > > > the > > > > person. In that light, the bullying phenomenon is being taken > more > > > > seriously than it used to. > > > > Still, there is no denying the brutality and savagery of bullies > > and > > > > their behavior. I saw a video in class the other day about lions > > and > > > > hyenas. In the film, hyenas would circle around a pack lions, > > > isolate > > > > the female, then visciously attack the ‘adolescent’ cubs. The > male > > > > leader would be absent in such cases, as those lions have the > drive > > > to > > > > kill – hence hyenas fear them. Hyenas take a more cowardly or > > sneaky > > > > form of attack (hence their laughing), while lions go for the > > direct > > > > kills. > > > > As I watched that video, I couldn’t help but think that bullies > > > aren’t > > > > much different, whether they choose a hyena or lion-like style of > > > > attack. > > > > Steve > > > People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses > > that > > > they can’t be bullied. > > Nonsense. I consistently ignored bullies in high school, yet they > > continued to bully me. Perhaps *some* bullies lose interest when the > > victim fails to react, but some just continue to get off on the > > sadistic thrill of tormenting another human being. > So you did feel torment, then?

Tormenting is not quite the same as causing the other to feel torment (the latter has much stronger connotations, I think). > I don’t define that as ignoring the bullying.

Ignoring usually means not registering a visible reaction. > Ignoring bullying is when you don’t care and it’s irrelevant > to you. If it hurts you, then you’re not ignoring it. They kept at you > because they sensed you were hurt.

I have a pretty good poker face. I think you’re just wrong on that one. Some bullies will quit; others won’t.

Response:

mosanx wrote: > I’ve been called something like 30 different names……. and > usually was beaten at school almost everyday. My popolarity > has always been almost 0, I also feared a lot gyms and sport > activity since I considered them as a symbolic place where > you don’t count much intellectualy, only phisically.

It’s about time someone attempted some humor in here, but you still have a ways to go to reach Adia Thermanous. Virgo Cluster . "[10 Eponymous Body Parts] (#4) Santorini’s muscle .. (in the face)." << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless .. Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, p. 205 >>

Response:

jizzlob…@intergate.com wrote in news:1109353659.474521.134760 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: > 6th grade, someone next to me was > verbally teasing me, quietly, right in class. I hauled off and socked > him right in the face. The teacher didnt see it, her back was turned to > the chalkboard, but just about everyone else did. He started to cry

This exact thing happened with me (same grade, even). It’s the only time I stood up for myself that it actually worked. He was smaller than me and wasn’t connected to any gangs, so that probably explains it.

Response:

"MrWigglesworth" wrote in news:8f7e3559c9b34ea7933ccd9a65dbf4b8@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com: > Well I found that bullying advice came in two forms: > 1) "Stand up for yourself and they’ll respect you." > I did this a few times. I got my ass handed to me. I guess I > expected the bully to go down in one punch, like in the movies. I was > scrawny and about a foot shorter than most of the guys (I went through > puberty pretty late). They kicked my ass and laughed the whole time.

Most of the time I was bullied by guys who were early bloomers (were practically full-grown adults at 13), or who were part of gangs (not always street gangs, but sometimes). In neither case would getting into a fight have been a good decision. > 2) "Ignore them and they’ll get bored and go away." > This is what I did most of the time and it didn’t really work either. > Somehow they interpreted my ignoring them as a sign that they could > ruffle me. That or they just escalated things until I had no choice > but to react.

If the bully is bullying solely for attention, and isn’t particularly motivated, then ignoring them will work. These aren’t really what we’d call bullies, though. They’re more like "bored jackasses." If the bully is bullying as part of a posturing ritual–for the respect of his peers–then ignoring him will only escalate things. The bully will be seen as ineffective (weak) to those he’s trying to impress if he can’t command an ineffective response from his prey. Peer respect is far more motivating than "I want to be less bored."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gray Loser wrote: > KC Carter wrote: > > Steve wrote: > > > Thanks for that post Mr Wigglesworth, it touched me a lot. I think > > the > > > biggest misunderstanding about youth these days is that people just > > > don’t know how profound the experiences are in shaping a person’s > > life. > > > The adolescent is experiencing a major formation of identity and > > > self-concept. It’s ridiculous to assume that the HS student has > > ADULT > > > level coping skills and strategies to deal with stressful > situations, > > > yet this is exactly what many parents and teachers do assume. > > > In my experience, I can’t count the number of times that authority > > > figures responded with pat answers to traumatic experiences in my > > early > > > HS years. For example: > > > "You’re adults now, so you can sort this problem out on your own." > > > Uh, no. > > > "Just don’t put up with that kind of stuff." > > > Right. > > > "Ignore that guy, then the behavior won’t be reinforced." > > > If only it were that simple. > > > Fortunately, such attitudes are changing as there is now more > > awareness > > > about the effects of bullying on self-esteem. My studies of > > > educational research show that it seems to be going beyond the > whole > > > behavioralist approach, and looking more into the ‘whole nature’ of > > the > > > person. In that light, the bullying phenomenon is being taken more > > > seriously than it used to. > > > Still, there is no denying the brutality and savagery of bullies > and > > > their behavior. I saw a video in class the other day about lions > and > > > hyenas. In the film, hyenas would circle around a pack lions, > > isolate > > > the female, then visciously attack the ‘adolescent’ cubs. The male > > > leader would be absent in such cases, as those lions have the drive > > to > > > kill – hence hyenas fear them. Hyenas take a more cowardly or > sneaky > > > form of attack (hence their laughing), while lions go for the > direct > > > kills. > > > As I watched that video, I couldn’t help but think that bullies > > aren’t > > > much different, whether they choose a hyena or lion-like style of > > > attack. > > > Steve > > People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses > that > > they can’t be bullied. > Nonsense. I consistently ignored bullies in high school, yet they > continued to bully me. Perhaps *some* bullies lose interest when the > victim fails to react, but some just continue to get off on the > sadistic thrill of tormenting another human being.

So you did feel torment, then? I don’t define that as ignoring the bullying. Ignoring bullying is when you don’t care and it’s irrelevant to you. If it hurts you, then you’re not ignoring it. They kept at you because they sensed you were hurt. KC

Response:

"Gray Loser" wrote in message

news:1109319750.731103.38520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hardpan wrote: > > On 24 Feb 2005 23:43:41 -0800, "Gray Loser" > > wrote: > > >KC Carter wrote: > > >> Steve wrote: > > >> People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses > > >that > > >> they can’t be bullied. > > >Nonsense. I consistently ignored bullies in high school, yet they > > >continued to bully me. Perhaps *some* bullies lose interest when > the > > >victim fails to react, but some just continue to get off on the > > >sadistic thrill of tormenting another human being. > > You are correct. > > There are some sick fucks out there in the world, to be sure. > Especially teens. At some point, though, it becomes impractical to > bully other adults.

It becomes impractical to bully them physically. That’s when the manipulative mind games start.

Response:

MrWigglesworth wrote: > Well I found that bullying advice came in two forms: > 1) "Stand up for yourself and they’ll respect you." > 2) "Ignore them and they’ll get bored and go away."

I agree that neither will work. The reasons the bullies use don’t have grounds so it’s impossible to stand up against them. Ignoring would just make it worse and maybe physical, since they need to use harder means to get the attention. Third advice would be to tell a teacher. It could get them in trouble once, but they aren’t stupid and would take it outside of school. Now that I think of it, I remember a friend of mine that was making some insults to me sometimes, but then we had a good wrestling match in the snowy gutter and I think the insulting ceased after that. Don’t know if either of us won. This was not a really serious thing and the exception proves the rule. We are good buddies still and I have noticed that he still often makes rude comments towards others. I don’t know if he is even aware of it.

Response:

I went through a lot of the same problems, but much earlier. It mostly tapered off by high school and I was isolated, hanging out with 2 other "losers" and some other people who would drift in and out of our tight circle. But although I wouldn’t always fight, I did a lot. 5th grade, I hit someone over the head with a chair. 6th grade, someone next to me was verbally teasing me, quietly, right in class. I hauled off and socked him right in the face. The teacher didnt see it, her back was turned to the chalkboard, but just about everyone else did. He started to cry and also I started to cry because I had just signed a behavior contract stating I would be suspended for a week. Nothing came of it though. He and some of his friends tried to confront me after school but none of them actually did anything. 8th grade, I stabbed a bully in the arm with a bundle of sharpened pencils and he punched me in the nose. We both were suspended but it was unclear to the principal whether the punch or the stabbing occured first. (actually the teasing and threats of violence preceded the stabbing). Of course neither of us cleared it up. I was very short right up until 10th grade so I looked like an easy target. I got in 2 more fights in high school, won one and lost one. The one I won was with another outcast so there were no repurcussions. I did it front of a crowd too and that was at the beginning of 9th grade so that could have also done a lot to stave off further attacks. It was actually the subject of a quite a bit of teasing and joking on his part because when he was all in my face, I told him his shoelaces were untied and the moron looked down before I decked him. He couldnt go anywhere throughout school without hearing "Hey your shoelaces are untied" Even though I lost most of the time, I guess I was seen as too much of a risk to mess with because I was likely to react violently. So I was ignored, and isolated. I moved to a different school in a different city in 11th grade. I also grew several inches that summer so I was no longer the 2nd or 3rd shortest person at school, I was taller than most of the 9th graders. For the first month or so lunch was spent alone. This school had a sizeable neo-hippie contingent and one day I wore a Grateful Dead T Shirt to school so I was pretty much adopted by that community and didnt have any problems as far as fights and friends were concerned. It was the first time I had a real social life at school as previously it was only 1 or 2 other outcasts. Even though I only lived there a year, my dad lived down there so I would visit him almost every weekend and still have friends to hang out with down there for several years thereafter and even a girlfriend out of that social circle. Unfortunately they all turned into drug addicts and when I no longer had the girlfriend, there was really no reason to hang out with them further. There, for the first time in 6 years here I gave you all a bit of my high school story.

Response:

I feel for you. I was never bullied in HS. Sometimes, I was a target and people ganged up to poke fun at me, mostly based on something stupid I said or did (I had a big mouth). It wasn’t fun at the moment, but I never feared certain people or school. I wasn’t any more of a subject of ridicule than most anyone else, even the high school quarterback was made fun of the same way. I do wonder what people said about me behind my back. I mean, why didn’t anyone invite me to do anything fun with them? I know the types of things that people said about the other guys that no one invited to hang out; was I also held in that low regard? I don’t know. KC

Response:

Thanks for that post Mr Wigglesworth, it touched me a lot. I think the biggest misunderstanding about youth these days is that people just don’t know how profound the experiences are in shaping a person’s life. The adolescent is experiencing a major formation of identity and self-concept. It’s ridiculous to assume that the HS student has ADULT level coping skills and strategies to deal with stressful situations, yet this is exactly what many parents and teachers do assume. In my experience, I can’t count the number of times that authority figures responded with pat answers to traumatic experiences in my early HS years. For example: "You’re adults now, so you can sort this problem out on your own." Uh, no. "Just don’t put up with that kind of stuff." Right. "Ignore that guy, then the behavior won’t be reinforced." If only it were that simple. Fortunately, such attitudes are changing as there is now more awareness about the effects of bullying on self-esteem. My studies of educational research show that it seems to be going beyond the whole behavioralist approach, and looking more into the ‘whole nature’ of the person. In that light, the bullying phenomenon is being taken more seriously than it used to. Still, there is no denying the brutality and savagery of bullies and their behavior. I saw a video in class the other day about lions and hyenas. In the film, hyenas would circle around a pack lions, isolate the female, then visciously attack the ‘adolescent’ cubs. The male leader would be absent in such cases, as those lions have the drive to kill – hence hyenas fear them. Hyenas take a more cowardly or sneaky form of attack (hence their laughing), while lions go for the direct kills. As I watched that video, I couldn’t help but think that bullies aren’t much different, whether they choose a hyena or lion-like style of attack. Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Steve wrote: > Thanks for that post Mr Wigglesworth, it touched me a lot. I think the > biggest misunderstanding about youth these days is that people just > don’t know how profound the experiences are in shaping a person’s life. > The adolescent is experiencing a major formation of identity and > self-concept. It’s ridiculous to assume that the HS student has ADULT > level coping skills and strategies to deal with stressful situations, > yet this is exactly what many parents and teachers do assume. > In my experience, I can’t count the number of times that authority > figures responded with pat answers to traumatic experiences in my early > HS years. For example: > "You’re adults now, so you can sort this problem out on your own." > Uh, no. > "Just don’t put up with that kind of stuff." > Right. > "Ignore that guy, then the behavior won’t be reinforced." > If only it were that simple. > Fortunately, such attitudes are changing as there is now more awareness > about the effects of bullying on self-esteem. My studies of > educational research show that it seems to be going beyond the whole > behavioralist approach, and looking more into the ‘whole nature’ of the > person. In that light, the bullying phenomenon is being taken more > seriously than it used to. > Still, there is no denying the brutality and savagery of bullies and > their behavior. I saw a video in class the other day about lions and > hyenas. In the film, hyenas would circle around a pack lions, isolate > the female, then visciously attack the ‘adolescent’ cubs. The male > leader would be absent in such cases, as those lions have the drive to > kill – hence hyenas fear them. Hyenas take a more cowardly or sneaky > form of attack (hence their laughing), while lions go for the direct > kills. > As I watched that video, I couldn’t help but think that bullies aren’t > much different, whether they choose a hyena or lion-like style of > attack. > Steve

People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses that they can’t be bullied. KC

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -KC Carter wrote: > Steve wrote: > > Thanks for that post Mr Wigglesworth, it touched me a lot. I think > the > > biggest misunderstanding about youth these days is that people just > > don’t know how profound the experiences are in shaping a person’s > life. > > The adolescent is experiencing a major formation of identity and > > self-concept. It’s ridiculous to assume that the HS student has > ADULT > > level coping skills and strategies to deal with stressful situations, > > yet this is exactly what many parents and teachers do assume. > > In my experience, I can’t count the number of times that authority > > figures responded with pat answers to traumatic experiences in my > early > > HS years. For example: > > "You’re adults now, so you can sort this problem out on your own." > > Uh, no. > > "Just don’t put up with that kind of stuff." > > Right. > > "Ignore that guy, then the behavior won’t be reinforced." > > If only it were that simple. > > Fortunately, such attitudes are changing as there is now more > awareness > > about the effects of bullying on self-esteem. My studies of > > educational research show that it seems to be going beyond the whole > > behavioralist approach, and looking more into the ‘whole nature’ of > the > > person. In that light, the bullying phenomenon is being taken more > > seriously than it used to. > > Still, there is no denying the brutality and savagery of bullies and > > their behavior. I saw a video in class the other day about lions and > > hyenas. In the film, hyenas would circle around a pack lions, > isolate > > the female, then visciously attack the ‘adolescent’ cubs. The male > > leader would be absent in such cases, as those lions have the drive > to > > kill – hence hyenas fear them. Hyenas take a more cowardly or sneaky > > form of attack (hence their laughing), while lions go for the direct > > kills. > > As I watched that video, I couldn’t help but think that bullies > aren’t > > much different, whether they choose a hyena or lion-like style of > > attack. > > Steve > People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses that > they can’t be bullied.

Nonsense. I consistently ignored bullies in high school, yet they continued to bully me. Perhaps *some* bullies lose interest when the victim fails to react, but some just continue to get off on the sadistic thrill of tormenting another human being.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hardpan wrote: > On 24 Feb 2005 23:43:41 -0800, "Gray Loser" > wrote: > >KC Carter wrote: > >> Steve wrote: > >> People who CAN ignore bullies aren’t targeted b/c the bully senses > >that > >> they can’t be bullied. > >Nonsense. I consistently ignored bullies in high school, yet they > >continued to bully me. Perhaps *some* bullies lose interest when the > >victim fails to react, but some just continue to get off on the > >sadistic thrill of tormenting another human being. > You are correct. > There are some sick fucks out there in the world, to be sure.

Especially teens. At some point, though, it becomes impractical to bully other adults. So they graduate to taking it out on their wife, kids, employees, etc. > Did you ever take any revenge out on these creeps?

Only in my fantasies. At 15-16 (when most bullying occurred) I really didn’t know the first thing about assertiveness.

Response:

Hi there, I thought I’d share some of my experiences from high school. Does anyone have any similar tales to tell? Back in high school I was a nerd. I still am, but back then I fitted the stereotype a little better. Skinny, acne, braces, studious etc. The guys would call me all sorts of names (I got beat up a few times, but thankfully I wasn’t subjected to daily beatings) and the girls favourite trick was to flirt with me and then laugh at me and call me a nerd. I remember the girls being a lot crueler, simply because the abuse from the guy’s was pretty direct and straightforward. They would call me a names or whatever. I could deal with that. The girls would constantly tease, trick and lie to me. I don’t know why. It’s not like I would creep girls out by stalking them or anything. I pretty ignored the female gender altogether. I remember this time a girl came up to me and asked me out on a date. At first I was skeptical, but she wasn’t one of the regular group who used to pick on me, so I accepted. We arranged to meet at a bus stop near a local movie theatre. I dressed up in my coolest clothes and waited. Twenty minutes after the scheduled time a car peals around the corner. I recognise it as belonging to one of the guys from school. I make out the face of the girl I was supposed to meet, along with several of the guys and girls who used to pick on me. As they passed me they threw a bunch of garbage at me, sprayed me with water and called me a bunch of names. I stood there in shock, dripping and covered in fast food wrappers. It was a Saturday afternoon and there were a lot of teenagers about. They all laughed at me. Nobody stopped to help, or asked me if I was okay. Had I eerie psychic powers, I would have gone Carrie on their asses. I tried to maintain some dignity as I brushed myself off and started to walk home, but as soon as I rounded the corner I just started to run. Tears were streaming from my eyes. When I got home I locked myself in my room and just lay there for hours. Thankfully I hadn’t told anyone about the "date" (I was a little suspicious to begin with) and that group kept their little prank to themselves. It was a little private joke they had, though they would continue to tease me about it. In fact, we did this little exercise where everyone had to write something good about everyone else and put it in that person’s envelope (Catholic school, heh). That girl wrote something about me being a really good date. God, what a bitch. If that small group had realised how profoundly their actions had affected me I wonder how they’d feel. For the next few years I couldn’t even imagine having a girlfriend. Females had dissappeared from my radar. I got a few advances, but I ignored them because I was certain it was another elaborate prank. If someone asked me if I had a girlfriend I’d laugh and say "Yeah, right!" as if it was the most ludicrous thing I’d ever heard. Essentially I drifted right through my teenage years and early twenties without forming a relationship. I’d partially gotten over my fear of women… I had plenty of female friends, probably too many. Too afraid to approach women romantically, though. Cold approaches? Forget it, I couldn’t even make eye contact. And by the time I got over things it was no longer socially acceptable to be a clueless idiot with relationships. Mr Wigglesworth

Response:

Ugly Merri wanted to talk again, how cute..

admin — Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

>To clarify a few points, Jim. >1. Of course you’re uglier than me. But then, it’s not something I’m >especially proud of; after all, you’re uglier than 99% of men.

To clarify a few points, Ugly Merri: I’ve had 20 women hit on me, you’ve had ZERO. Quit being such a coward and try responding to this point…Prove that I’m uglier than 99% of men, remember the burden of proof is on the one making the claim, you said so yourself, remember? And we know how you love using that cutesy, smug logic rhetoric to feed your precious ego. >2. I’m sure you mother buys you nice sweaters, though it doesn’t make you >any less ugly. No girl has ever wanted you, and no ever will.

I’m not ugly and plenty of attractive girls have already wanted me: Laura, Melody, Robin, Jennifer, etc…all WAY better than anything you could ever attract. And don’t forget I’m sitting on a pile of money here. Did I forget to mention my rich Aunt? Well, she’s a millionaire, Ugly Merri. So if you add the money from my parents with my stocks and include what my Aunt plans to give me….we are up over $500,000 dollars…LOL…have fun being poor and ugly, Merri……I checked the Google archive…you don’t even have a driver’s license…LOL …. I’ll be out driving my expensive Lexus….you know what, little Merri? I’ve turned down 3 girls in just the last 6 months because they weren’t up to my high standards. You can’t even get attention from FAT CHICKS…LOL >3. Yes, you indeed care about the content of my killfile. That is why I >told you I had left only one of your aliases unkillfiled (and that wasn’t a >lie). That way I ensured that you either stop flooding the group or use >your primary alias, and so will be eventually killfiled by everyone.

Unlike you, little Merri, this is just time filler to me….I couldn’t give a damn about your silly little "killfile"…how dorky..are you a computer nerd too? A big Star Wars fan? Nice coke bottle sized glasses with a pencil neck and a lot of acne?? Wow, your looks are a mess….. You’ve already been told to use your REAL name, Merri….you have refused to do so and therefore you have violated the principles of the deal. I will TROLL as I please…. >As you >can see, no matter what you do, you’re just a puppet in my hands.

LOL!!!!!!!!!! Sure thing, Merri, then how come I unmasked your sorry ass all over this board?? LOL Was I a puppet when I outed you as TROLL Merri? I don’t think so, buddy…. You really need to get a life. Is this the only power you have in life?? Silly newsgroups?? How old are you??? You remind me of those 15 year old dateless geeks who get arrested for sending millions of SPAM E-Mails. Try going out in the real world and getting a life, ugly Merri… As you can see, no matter what you do I go back to college a good looking rich man in January who drives a Lexus and has $500,000 dollars coming his way in the future. You will still be sitting here wasting your life away as some hideously ugly net nerd who can’t even attract FAT CHICKS. You are a sad and pathetic joke. Get a life. : )

Response:

Jim Summers87 wrote: > As you can see, no matter what you do I go back to college a good looking > rich man in January who drives a Lexus and has $500,000 dollars coming his way > in the future. You will still be sitting here wasting your life away as some > hideously ugly net nerd who can’t even attract FAT CHICKS. You are a sad and > pathetic joke. > Get a life.

You are a good looking rich man who drives a lexus? What the hell are you doing trolling A.S.S.? You don’t belong here. Some of us don’t have all the advantages in life and we need support from our peers. You really, really, really, really, really NEED TO GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response:

Shit.

admin — Mon, 27 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I started Accutane the day before my 19th birthday. My insurance ceased on my 19th birthday. We managed to fanagle things so I could get three monthes worth of Accutane at once, and have it covered by insurance. Well, here it is, three monthes later, and I am out of Accutane, and I cannot afford to pay for it out of pocket. So I guess thats it. Im done with Accutane. I know it is going to come back and probably worse than before, even though right now it is so amazingly clear. I should be covered by my work within a few monthes, so they can pay for a second course- hopefully- but it sucks to get this far and then have to stop. Fuck. Man, I do NOT want to go back to the way it was. I DO NOT. not at all. i’d rather take accutane everyday for the rest of my life. ~~Jade — what was that about cows?

Response:

I’ve been reading this newsgroup for awhile and remember when you first started accutane and was wonderin how it was going. Maybe you could take out a loan or something? It shouldnt be to much for 2 more months worth or however long you had left. I read where you can order it pretty cheap from overseas places. What dosage was you on and how bad was your side effects? I’d like to take it but, I dunno, Im afraid I couldnt get it I guess because my acne isnt really that bad and kinda think it might not be worth the money and side effects. Anways, hope you can get it somehow, later.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started Accutane the day before my 19th birthday. My insurance ceased on my 19th birthday. We managed to fanagle things so I could get three monthes worth of Accutane at once, and have it covered by insurance. Well, here it is, three monthes later, and I am out of Accutane, and I cannot afford to pay for it out of pocket. So I guess thats it. Im done with Accutane. I know it is going to come back and probably worse than before, even though right now it is so amazingly clear. I should be covered by my work within a few monthes, so they can pay for a second course- hopefully- but it sucks to get this far and then have to stop. Fuck. Man, I do NOT want to go back to the way it was. I DO NOT. not at all. i’d rather take accutane everyday for the rest of my life. ~~Jade — what was that about cows?

Response:

RL absence and O&C update (LONG)

admin — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Otis looks like a boa constrictor who’s eaten a rabbit or something so yes, it’s good thing that Chester gets first crack! How’s Betty? Susan M

We definitely need new Betty pictures. Sherry

Response:

Otis looks like a boa constrictor who’s eaten a rabbit or something so yes, it’s good thing that Chester gets first crack! How’s Betty? Susan M We definitely need new Betty pictures.

She’s not the more cooperative photo subject, but she’s so cute, I’ll have to get more pictures of her. I think she’s at her cutest when being held, because she gets so limp and relaxed.

Response:

If Otis is getting fat, then that’s a good thing. I’ve heard before of cats reversing their usual dominance roles at the food dish, like how adult cats often allow kittens or youngsters to eat at the dish first.

Otis looks like a boa constrictor who’s eaten a rabbit or something so yes, it’s good thing that Chester gets first crack! How’s Betty? Susan M Otis and Chester

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Soncek is 5 and a half years old. Best wishes and purrs for sleeping through the night, — Polonca & Soncek

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ROFLMAO!!! Tears streaming down my face. You really *really* understand. I can tell Susan M Otis and Chester

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Either I am totally spoiled, or the soundest sleeper in the western hemisphere. The cats don’t wake me up at night. I usually get up sometime between 2 and 4 am to use the bathroom, then go back to sleep. The number of cats on the bed varies with the weather (last night was a four cat bed) so I may or may not have to talk a cat out of my side of the bed in order to have room to climb in. Other than that, the cats are absolutely no problem. Now watch them prove me wrong tonight.

I can’t imagine what that’s like. First, we got Otis in 1996 as a kitten. He took two years to kind of sleep through the night. Then we had Jane who *never* slept. Then we had Sam. Now we have two kids and two cats who rotate waking us up at night! On the rare night that I sleep right through, I feel like Superwoman in the AM. Maybe that’s why you’re superwoman Susan M Otis and Chester Sleeping in the basement tonight … …. if I’m strong enough

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I enjoyed reading about Otis and Chester. They are such sweeties. As for your sleeping problem, why don’t you try "whitenoise"? or OTC or RX sleeping pills? My cats do things in the night; but i sleep through it. Unless it is something bad. Maybe my subconcious filters the mayhem for me into mild-sleep through it, to bad-wake up and tend to it.

Thanks Catherine: I beg my doc to prescribe just a small number of sleeping pills – like 5 every two months or so – just enough so that, when I can’t handle it anymore and simply *have* to sleep, I could pull out the emergency reserve. She won’t do it. Says I need lifestyle changes. She’s right, of course, but I’d still love to know I have one tiny sleep pill in my cabinet anyway! I think you’ve probably seen pics of the boys, I’ll put the URL in just in case you haven’t: http://community.webshots.com/user/susanmandfredk Susan M Otis and CHester

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Hi all: I don’t get to read the ng as much as I’d like. Such great folks and stories that cheer me up and can also make me cry in shared pain. I read Baha’s thread on not feeling very merry and was awed by how so many of the group have survived such horrible circumstances – not only survived but are loving kind caring people. I am inspired by their strength and I sent lots of telepathic hugs out all over the world when I read your stories. Reading those stories sure put my ridiculously hectic and chaotic few months in perspective. They were busy but good months and I have two lovely furry creatures to cuddle at night that make everything alright. One of those cuddly boys, Otis, is getting FAT!!! Seems that his long escape on our holidays made him appreciate the comforts of home that much more. He was nice and slim when we got him back and has been eating constantly since his return. I’ve had to put him on a diet for the first time in his life. He’ll also be 9 yo on January 19th so maybe he’s getting his midlife paunch You can tell that its getting cold again since Otis sleeps under the covers every night now. Hops up on the bed, burrows underneath the covers, and we spoon the whole night – just his little pointed head sticking out of the covers and resting on the pillow beside me. It’s really lovely. Otis also has a new habit. Before, he used to just tap me with a paw as a first warning at night, usually on the face. If I didn’t respond immediately, then he’d break out a claw and apply light pressure until he got my attention. Now, he *starts* with the claw. I’m walking around with what look like acne on my face. They’re not zits, they’re little tiny cat scratches. I’ve got three of them right now. Just add that to the list of annoying, disruptive and destructive habits of my dear boy. I’ve decided that sleeping with the cats is leaving us chronically sleep deprived. One or the other gets up at 4 AM. If its Otis, he opens the closet doors and tries to lick the plastic drycleaning bags on my clothes. Either that or he jumps up on the dresser under the windows and bats the wooden shades around. If its Chester, its harder to be mad. He jumps up with his Kramer entrance and starts purring so hard we think he’s going to explode. He’ll either present his head to Otis for a grooming, in which case we are awake to the sounds of cats slurping for another 5 – 10 minutes, or it jazzes Otis up and he hits the closets. We’ve tried locking Otis 2 floors down in the basement but he yowls so dramatically, that it wakes us up anyway. We’ve tried locking Chester out of the bedroom but, since he’s discovered his inner cat, he scratches and makes a scene until we let him in anyway. G*d forbid we forget to close the door to the ensuite. Chester will fish around in the garbage can until he gags from the way it rubs on his neck. This is crazy! Do you *all* have such a time sleeping???? Are we all sleep deprived crazy people?? Otis now also defers to Chester at the food dish. Some kind of battle has been won somewhere – Otis sits back patiently and waits for Chester to have the first crack at it – even if Chester hasn’t yet arrived at the dish. Weird. And Chester – still a total angel. He really is. OK – my 3 hours a night of sleep this week has caught up with me so I should go and tumble into bed. Thanks for listening to my cat ramblings. Susan M Otis and Chester Who’d better sleep tonight!

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Thanks for listening to my cat ramblings.

Nice to hear from you, Susan. Aww, those kitties of yours. Scritches to them both. But you are not alone in the sleep-deprivation department; Frank started yowling at 3.30 this morning. Since I had stayed up late to watch a movie on TV, I got three hours’ sleep this night. I can never get back to sleep after waking. The other night, I awoke to the periodic CRACKLE CRACKLE CRACKLE of a thick paper bag that both Nikki and Frank have adopted as their new favourite sleeping place. Apparently they were waging war over who got to sleep on it. Right now, it’s occupied by Frank, and Nikki is inside one of her many boxes strewn aroun d the flat. Tonight I must remember to hide that paper bag somewhere. — Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

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Thanks for listening to my cat ramblings. Nice to hear from you, Susan. Aww, those kitties of yours. Scritches to them both. But you are not alone in the sleep-deprivation department; Frank started yowling at 3.30 this morning. Since I had stayed up late to watch a movie on TV, I got three hours’ sleep this night. I can never get back to sleep after waking. The other night, I awoke to the periodic CRACKLE CRACKLE CRACKLE of a thick paper bag that both Nikki and Frank have adopted as their new favourite sleeping place. Apparently they were waging war over who got to sleep on it. Right now, it’s occupied by Frank, and Nikki is inside one of her many boxes strewn aroun d the flat. Tonight I must remember to hide that paper bag somewhere.

my trouble is the the cats do not seem to need to move ALL NIGHT. I do. So, usually after my 2 a.m. bladder break, I go sleep on the couch (which is more comfortable than my bed. SUgar and Grant often stay on the bed and Pearl goes into one of the cat trees or her little bed. I love falling asleep with them all pressed up against me though. If I don’t have to go to the bathroom, we stay all night in the bed, but Pearl often doesn’t. I think my moving bothers her

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Hee hee! I guess that little chat I had with Otis worked then. I told him he’s got a good thing going in your gorgeous house and he should really stay in more. Better to have a midlife paunch than to roam all the time I’m sorry to hear about your sleep deprivation. Vino used to be worse in Vancouver but here he starts at 6:30 am and only goes on for 5-10 min. He stops sooner if we absolutely and totally ignore him. He has another crack at it about an hour later but that’s when I usually get up anyway. I hope things improve for you guys in the sleeping department! Purrs for your life to slow down a bit so you can get more time on the NG. Purrs for Archie too. I hope you guys have a nice Christmas Take care, — Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that’s covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all: I don’t get to read the ng as much as I’d like. Such great folks and stories that cheer me up and can also make me cry in shared pain. I read Baha’s thread on not feeling very merry and was awed by how so many of the group have survived such horrible circumstances – not only survived but are loving kind caring people. I am inspired by their strength and I sent lots of telepathic hugs out all over the world when I read your stories. Reading those stories sure put my ridiculously hectic and chaotic few months in perspective. They were busy but good months and I have two lovely furry creatures to cuddle at night that make everything alright. One of those cuddly boys, Otis, is getting FAT!!! Seems that his long escape on our holidays made him appreciate the comforts of home that much more. He was nice and slim when we got him back and has been eating constantly since his return. I’ve had to put him on a diet for the first time in his life. He’ll also be 9 yo on January 19th so maybe he’s getting his midlife paunch You can tell that its getting cold again since Otis sleeps under the covers every night now. Hops up on the bed, burrows underneath the covers, and we spoon the whole night – just his little pointed head sticking out of the covers and resting on the pillow beside me. It’s really lovely. Otis also has a new habit. Before, he used to just tap me with a paw as a first warning at night, usually on the face. If I didn’t respond immediately, then he’d break out a claw and apply light pressure until he got my attention. Now, he *starts* with the claw. I’m walking around with what look like acne on my face. They’re not zits, they’re little tiny cat scratches. I’ve got three of them right now. Just add that to the list of annoying, disruptive and destructive habits of my dear boy. I’ve decided that sleeping with the cats is leaving us chronically sleep deprived. One or the other gets up at 4 AM. If its Otis, he opens the closet doors and tries to lick the plastic drycleaning bags on my clothes. Either that or he jumps up on the dresser under the windows and bats the wooden shades around. If its Chester, its harder to be mad. He jumps up with his Kramer entrance and starts purring so hard we think he’s going to explode. He’ll either present his head to Otis for a grooming, in which case we are awake to the sounds of cats slurping for another 5 – 10 minutes, or it jazzes Otis up and he hits the closets. We’ve tried locking Otis 2 floors down in the basement but he yowls so dramatically, that it wakes us up anyway. We’ve tried locking Chester out of the bedroom but, since he’s discovered his inner cat, he scratches and makes a scene until we let him in anyway. G*d forbid we forget to close the door to the ensuite. Chester will fish around in the garbage can until he gags from the way it rubs on his neck. This is crazy! Do you *all* have such a time sleeping???? Are we all sleep deprived crazy people?? Otis now also defers to Chester at the food dish. Some kind of battle has been won somewhere – Otis sits back patiently and waits for Chester to have the first crack at it – even if Chester hasn’t yet arrived at the dish. Weird. And Chester – still a total angel. He really is. OK – my 3 hours a night of sleep this week has caught up with me so I should go and tumble into bed. Thanks for listening to my cat ramblings. Susan M Otis and Chester Who’d better sleep tonight!

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I don’t know if this will help, but Soncek sleeps through the night since I’ve gotten him used to about an hour of playing before going to bed. He even does it himself sometimes (if I’m too busy reading rpca). Lots of purrs and best wishes for your good nights’ sleep, — Polonca & Soncek

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Oh yeah, I know about sleep deprivation. First Mischief will hop up on the windowsill and her wagging tail makes the vertical blinds go C-CLACK C-C-CLACK!! Then at some point Imp will use the litter box in the bathroom and start scratching the wall…….over and over and over and over until I have to sit up in bed and call his name. Then there will be a middle of the night romp, which usually involves some or all of the following : the thundering of little feet; clattering of vertical blinds in the living room as the cats run up the cat tree; growling; and other assorted noises of two cats romping around….. Then Mischief will jump on the bed and start kneading the pillow right next to my head and starts purring and lets out her little meow that says, "Pet me!" Whether I pet her or not she will collapse, (normally on my face) and continue to purr so loud I can’t sleep. Then after a few hours and will come back again at some point. Next thing I know it is morning and time to feed the kittles. This morning happened to be the first morning I didn’t have to get up before 8 in the last 2 weeks. I hear Mischief jump on the bed, and meow at me. She starts purring up a storm, and I’m just ignoring her. She then goes through her repetoire of ‘waking meowmie’ techniques; the walking over the meowmie over and over again; the head butting; the cold nose on the hand and face; the flopping on the face so the meowmie is inhaling fur, etc…. None of which are working, but then I feel Imp jump on the bed, and I Imp: Whatcha doin? Mischief: I’m trying to wake Mama Kristi up, so she can feed us, dummy. Imp: Have you tried purring in her face? Mischief: Yes, I tried that…. Imp: what about walking on her tummy? Mischief: YES, I tried that too. Look, if you know so much, why don’t YOU get wake her up? gopher!! Mischief: That’s her foot, you moron… Imp: Die!!! I got it!! Kill Kill Kill!! Me: Ow! Knock it off, Imp! Mischief: Hey, it’s actually working! Keep killing it!! blanketh. Mischief: Oh great…. Nice one, dummy.. Imp: I’m stuckth!! (popping and ripping noises are heard) Me: Imp!! What are you doing? Mischief: Yeah!! Mama Kristi’s awake!! Time for food!! Me: You silly catssss……. Imp: Hey, she’s going back to sleep! Mischief: Oh great, nice going, you moron, now we’re not going to get any food. Imp: Why are you always yelling at me? I didn’t see you making much progress…. Mischief: Will you shut up already? Imp: Hey, how about I come over there and shut YOU up for once? Mischief: Bring it ON, Imp the WIMP! Imp: Don’t CALL ME THAT!!! Mischief: IMP THE WIMP!! I sit up to two cats wrestling on the bed next to a bunch of teeth marks and claw holes in the comforter. *sigh* Kristi

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OK – my 3 hours a night of sleep this week has caught up with me so I should go and tumble into bed. Thanks for listening to my cat ramblings.

Response:

Hi all:

Keeping up with the group is hard. Like you, and a lot of others, i send purrs and prayers floating around whether I have time to write or not. I enjoyed reading about Otis and Chester. They are such sweeties. As for your sleeping problem, why don’t you try "whitenoise"? or OTC or RX sleeping pills? My cats do things in the night; but i sleep through it. Unless it is something bad. Maybe my subconcious filters the mayhem for me into mild-sleep through it, to bad-wake up and tend to it. — CATherine

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LOL! Frank doesn’t flop onto my face, but he does curl around my head and purr when he wants me to get up in the morning. Sometimes, he drags a claw along some exposed bit of skin to wake me. He does the digging to New Zealand thing in the litterbox, too, and the other morning, he scratched in his litterbox, then he came and scratched scratched scratched at the bedroom door, just to make a point. — Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

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He probably wants to help pee in the Greebling Queen’s sink. Pam S.

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Otis now also defers to Chester at the food dish. Some kind of battle has been won somewhere – Otis sits back patiently and waits for Chester to have the first crack at it – even if Chester hasn’t yet arrived at the dish. Weird.

Response:

?The other night, I awoke to the periodic CRACKLE CRACKLE CRACKLE of a thick paper bag that both Nikki and Frank have adopted as their new favourite sleeping place. Apparently they were waging war over who got to sleep on it. Right now, it’s occupied by Frank, and Nikki is inside one of her many boxes strewn aroun d the flat. Tonight I must remember to hide that paper bag somewhere.

LOL = I hope you remembered – I’m always forgetting to do things like that and regretting it in the wee hours of the morning. I didn’t realize that Frank was such an early waker. All this time, I’ve been thinking that Otis will get easier as he ages. Frank is 17 yo AND STILL DOES IT!!!! Yikes. (Happy belated purrday Frank!) Susan M Otis and Chester

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You are such a devoted slave to move to the couch! I’m glad to know that we’re not the only ones that put up with a lot in the sleep department! SM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Thanks Britta – could you come back and tell him to sleep through the night too? :-) Otis was up between 4:30 and 6:30 this AM. I’d prefer the five minute routine. Not only is Vinco ridiculously adorable, but he’s even polite about early mornings! Awwww….. Thanks also for the Archie purrs – I’m worried about him and feel terrible for Jane’s teacher. Her mom’s just had brain surgery and is incapacitated in Toronto, school life isn’t super easy right now, and then this d*rn cat has gone on a tear. I hope so much that she gets him back. Merry warm Christmas! Susan M Otis and Chester

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hee hee! I guess that little chat I had with Otis worked then. I told him he’s got a good thing going in your gorgeous house and he should really stay in more. Better to have a midlife paunch than to roam all the time I’m sorry to hear about your sleep deprivation. Vino used to be worse in Vancouver but here he starts at 6:30 am and only goes on for 5-10 min. He stops sooner if we absolutely and totally ignore him. He has another crack at it about an hour later but that’s when I usually get up anyway. I hope things improve for you guys in the sleeping department! Purrs for your life to slow down a bit so you can get more time on the NG. Purrs for Archie too. I hope you guys have a nice Christmas Take care, — Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that’s covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album Hi all: I don’t get to read the ng as much as I’d like. Such great folks and stories that cheer me up and can also make me cry in shared pain. I read Baha’s thread on not feeling very merry and was awed by how so many of the group have survived such horrible circumstances – not only survived but are loving kind caring people. I am inspired by their strength and I sent lots of telepathic hugs out all over the world when I read your stories. Reading those stories sure put my ridiculously hectic and chaotic few months in perspective. They were busy but good months and I have two lovely furry creatures to cuddle at night that make everything alright. One of those cuddly boys, Otis, is getting FAT!!! Seems that his long escape on our holidays made him appreciate the comforts of home that much more. He was nice and slim when we got him back and has been eating constantly since his return. I’ve had to put him on a diet for the first time in his life. He’ll also be 9 yo on January 19th so maybe he’s getting his midlife paunch You can tell that its getting cold again since Otis sleeps under the covers every night now. Hops up on the bed, burrows underneath the covers, and we spoon the whole night – just his little pointed head sticking out of the covers and resting on the pillow beside me. It’s really lovely. Otis also has a new habit. Before, he used to just tap me with a paw as a first warning at night, usually on the face. If I didn’t respond immediately, then he’d break out a claw and apply light pressure until he got my attention. Now, he *starts* with the claw. I’m walking around with what look like acne on my face. They’re not zits, they’re little tiny cat scratches. I’ve got three of them right now. Just add that to the list of annoying, disruptive and destructive habits of my dear boy. I’ve decided that sleeping with the cats is leaving us chronically sleep deprived. One or the other gets up at 4 AM. If its Otis, he opens the closet doors and tries to lick the plastic drycleaning bags on my clothes. Either that or he jumps up on the dresser under the windows and bats the wooden shades around. If its Chester, its harder to be mad. He jumps up with his Kramer entrance and starts purring so hard we think he’s going to explode. He’ll either present his head to Otis for a grooming, in which case we are awake to the sounds of cats slurping for another 5 – 10 minutes, or it jazzes Otis up and he hits the closets. We’ve tried locking Otis 2 floors down in the basement but he yowls so dramatically, that it wakes us up anyway. We’ve tried locking Chester out of the bedroom but, since he’s discovered his inner cat, he scratches and makes a scene until we let him in anyway. G*d forbid we forget to close the door to the ensuite. Chester will fish around in the garbage can until he gags from the way it rubs on his neck. This is crazy! Do you *all* have such a time sleeping???? Are we all sleep deprived crazy people?? Otis now also defers to Chester at the food dish. Some kind of battle has been won somewhere – Otis sits back patiently and waits for Chester to have the first crack at it – even if Chester hasn’t yet arrived at the dish. Weird. And Chester – still a total angel. He really is. OK – my 3 hours a night of sleep this week has caught up with me so I should go and tumble into bed. Thanks for listening to my cat ramblings. Susan M Otis and Chester Who’d better sleep tonight!

Response:

Thanks Polonca – you know, I’ve haven’t been doing the playing thing before bed for quite a while. I feel pretty winded after having talked both crazy kids into bed and then I retreat right into my private time. I should probably see if the playing works. Otis doesn’t play so much these days since he gets lots of opportunity to catch mice and things outside. When he’s been stuck indoors with the cold, then he likes to play a bit more. How old is Soncek now? Take care, Susan M Otis and Chester

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I don’t know if this will help, but Soncek sleeps through the night since I’ve gotten him used to about an hour of playing before going to bed. He even does it himself sometimes (if I’m too busy reading rpca). Lots of purrs and best wishes for your good nights’ sleep, — Polonca & Soncek